Kid with DVD player on train.... I asked to turn it down

[Dungandbother]

Outs self
Been on a very busy child packed train to a popular European tourist attraction.
There was no row but I'm curious for a MN verdict

Family next to mine. One child about 10. He gets out a portable DVD player and starts watching a film LOUDLY as in I can hear the whole thing and my DS was next to me.

It was a 12 film, The Avengers. I inwardly tut at the loudness but DS carries on playing iPad (on silent) and I continue to read.

DS notices film and leans towards it, he can hear it and it's interesting.

Film says SHIT and I quietly ask Dad to turn it down for the swearing. Mum herself turns it down and kid has a meltdown. He actually punched his DVD player. Mum removes film and all hell breaks loose.

Then mum tells me he has SN and I said sorry to have caused upset but I was bothered by the swearing for DS who is young (5).

She practically yelled at me well my son is little too.

Son calms down 15 mins later on being given a donut, a new film etc. He was actually pretty angelic for the rest of the journey.

I do feel the mum blamed me for the meltdown. Unjustifiable so.

Why didn't he have headphones

I wasn't being U was I?

You thought you'd come and repeat the bad parenting myth

Apologies for my post last night, it was stupid and deserved to be deleted. Fact is, none of us can know what happened bar the parent and the op so I shouldn't have kept to conclusions and I didn't think how upsetting it could be. For that I am sorry.

I am not repeating a myth that all Aspergers or ADHD or claiming that Aspergers or ADHD or other special needs don't exist. Just like the overwhelming majority of benefit claimants don't abuse the system, but a small minority do, most small businesses pay the tax due, but a minority do. I've had direct experience of this, probably much greater than most.

I have direct experience of this. I worked with children engaged in low-level offending and parents would claim ADHD or Aspergers as reasons for this behaviour. I'd ask which consultant they were order or whether there were other ongoing interventions and it would turn out that it was self diagnosed or I'd speak to school who would confirm that Ed psych had been involved and they met none of the criteria or there had been no involvement with Ed psych. Or the first question would be 'can you get him on Ritalin'

But what I did see in a number of cases was adults not setting boundaries, shouting screaming and swearing at their children, not keeping court appointments, turning up to meetings stinking of booze, it seemed that in those cases support with parenting would have been the best port of call in the first instance.

If he couldn't tolerate headphones then he shouldn't have been allowed to watch a DVD on. Train. SNs or not, it's just bad manners to subject everyone else to your intrusive noise.

Oh, for goodness sake, LeaveMyWings. I would be prepared to bet that, for this mother, it was a choice of letting her child watch the DVD or spending most of the journey with him in meltdown. Which would you find more intrusive if you were another passenger? I take it you're not suggesting she shouldn't travel at all.

And why is a DVD any more of an "intrusive noise" than a few passengers having a conversation with each other?

ComposHat, the mere fact that a child doesn't have a formal diagnosis doesn't mean that the ADHD or ASD doesn't exist. It can take two years just to get the preliminary appointment for that purpose, and yet more time to get the diagnosis - and it is regrettably not uncommon for professionals to get the diagnosis wrong. Educational psychologists generally aren't qualified to make the diagnosis anyway.

No, true, but if meltdown behaviour isn't acceptable and the tech used to fend off meltdown isn't acceptable what else are we supposed to do but stay home?

I don't mind the use of tech on journeys at all BUT parents should be considerate and not use tech with bad language near children.

And why is a DVD any more of an "intrusive noise" than a few passengers having a conversation with each other?

Er, loud music score, screeching of cars, shouting of actors etc etc. Awful and very rude to play them unless a child has SNs.

Tbh there's a lot of noise that distresses me. Even innocuous noises.

hear hear Becca

Gruntled in the cases I encountered it was mostly a case of a Google diagnosis and nothing more, rather than the being any clinical intervention at all. I realise my experience isn't typical or representative and says more about the client group we were working with.

I think your posts say more about you compos to be honest.

Care to clarify purple?

Well well ....... Oh to be you wonderful parents ....
Maybe one day you'll give birth to a child with SN and you'll walk in my shoes and then think "yes I was a complete and utter knob"

My child won't wear headphones he cont even tolerate a hat in the depths of winter. Really sorry..... He's 6 and he can't read .... Subtitles are out. He can't even use the toilet ... He's in nappies. He can't eat... He can't tolerate textures and flavours in his mouth !!! He probably wouldn't understand the film at all but the noises and the flickering pictures in the screen will bring in some amazing flaps, squeals of excitement and finger, wrist and hand movements!
Honestly some people just need to take a step back... It's not the OP who has pissed me off here ( I wouldn't want my kids to hear swear words on a film either!)

Sometimes as parents of SN kids we do things and we let our kids do things .... Just to get by... With little stress, torment and pain for everyone!!!!!

To get out of the house I have to pack unimaginable amounts of stuff!!!

Some of you really need to get over yourselves and try a little empathy!!!

Panda I'm totally with you xxxx

"Pandas and what if there's another passenger who has SN who is in distress or having a meltdown because of the noise? I'm not saying that you shouldn't be doing what you're doing but people's needs do clash at times. And when that happens I hope you don't judge that person if they have to leave because of the noise or have to cover their ears or have a panic attack or a meltdown.

I have done all four in the past and yes, people have judged me, even people who should know better."

toads I'm not sure why you have asked me that, tbh. Of course one need does not trump the other. In such a situation, I would hope to be able to find a way through it, with a bit of compromise on both sides (but that may not be possible, resulting in meltdowns on all sides - back to that 'life isn't perfect' bit) I am not sure which part of my post may have prompted you to assume I would judge anyone for coping the best they can in a situation which is difficult for them.

My dd doesn't (can't) use headphones. But she also doesn't have her iPad loud. Lower than conversational level, usually. She also doesn't watch anything unsuitable - it's usually Singing Hands, Something Special, or listening to music (which I try to discourage as she sings along - very nicelY, but I doubt the rest of the carriage/aeroplane/tube station/wherever wants to listen to her impromptu concert, however good she is). And so I would hope that, were you sitting near us, the level of noise would not distress you. My other two dc would more likely be making more noise, at a louder level, than dd with her iPad (and they wouldn't be being deliberately loud, just usual small children stuff). If dd didn't use her iPad, the noise from it would be replaced - either by her almighty meltdown, or by me reciting/singing something endlessly, at around the sa,e volume. The noise level would not be any lower. What would your solution be?

Incidentally, I do understand. I have noise sensitivity, and cannot differentiate, or often even discriminate, between levels of noise. The whispered conversation 8 rows away is as loud and intrusive to me as the person bellowing into their phone in the next seat (why oh why do people speak SO loudly into mobiles?!) which in turn is as loud and unignorable (to me) as the loudspeaker announcements, or the noise of dd's meltdowns. I absolutely get where you are coming from.

Pandas because everyone else seems to judge me. A lot .

Oh, and for the record, I don't think the OP was unreasonable to ask if the film cup,d be turned down/changed for something more suitable (although, if she was that bothered, she could have swapped places with her own child, thus moving him from the view, and started singing/telling a story/having a conversation to distract from the soundtrack).

I do, however, think the OP has been unreasonable to start this thread, with all the sneery, Grady details about how the mum calmed the child with a donut (associated query 'is this usually how a meltdown is handled?'), and the judgement of how the mum was clearly pandering to the child while the dad was firmer, etc. all totally unnecessary.

Grr autocorrect. Goady details, obv.

I think statistics show that huge numbers of those in prison have special needs actually, the many young offenders are actually young peoole with undiagnosed special needs or a history involving the care system etc. My husband works in this area and huge numbers of these children do or should have a diagnosis.

As for seeing an ed psych, well ds2 has had lots if input for an ed psych who kindly told us how great his academic skills are, how his language outs in his in.the top percentile and hos maths skills in the top 3percentile etc but knew fuck all about diagnosing asc. And seemed to think that as he was talkative he wasn't showing signs of anythin.

Yet ds2 has a diagnosis of asc or what was formally known as high functioning aspergers.

Re the child on the train, for starters the avengers films are a 12a anyway and plenty if kids under 12 have and do watch them, they are marketed at children even if it does say the word shit. And hearing a swear word isn't goung to hurt a child. Kids just learn where and when it's appropriate to swear... If op didn't want her child watching the film then she could have made the effort to distract her child and get their attention away from the film. I have done similar with my own kids on numerous train journeys. Unless you are in the quiet carriage people will be using laptops, tablets etc.

Fair enough to ask if they could turn it down,it would also have been Ok to start a thread explaining the situation and asking what could I have done to help etc. But this thread wasn't designed to do that at all, the op just wanted validation of herself.

Yes ideally the child would have had headphones but for whatever reason he didn't. The mother explained he had sn's which she didn't have to do. And as for your comment op that he was verbal... Seriously that means fuck all, my ds2 is highly verbal, he still has huge social and sensory issues, but yes he looks 'normal', so do all the children he works with but they still have special needs and behavioural issues.

Pandas, I think that's the key to try to get the balance between meeting your child's needs whilst also reducing the risk of causing distress/problems for others. It isn't always possible but I think the vast majority of parents of children with special needs have an awareness, probably above that of most people without SN experience, of trying to ensure that everyone is kept as happy and calm as possible without causing extra distress. Sometimes that may be using an iPad or similar with sound on at as low a level as possible in a situation whereby it wouldn't normally be socially accepted as it is better than the alternative of a meltdown from the child.

Yep, 5madthings, I have 2 verbal ASD children (probably soon to be a hattrick as ds is approaching his ADOS). Dd1 is extremely verbal and chatty - if you actually listen to what she says you will find it is very simple and repetitive, but on the face of it, she can carry out conversations reasonably well. She still has severe ASD. Dd2 is quieter (in public ), but is fully verbal, with a conversational ability well ahead of her actual age. She still has autism too, just better hidden than dd1's, as she doesn't have the same level of learning disability.

Ds is 3, and never shuts up. I fully expect he will end up with a dx too, with whatever they might be calling Aspergers/HFA at the time he receives his dx.

Appearances can be so very deceptive.

Oh my kids have sensitivities to some noises too.

In my case ear defenders are a godsend, though I appreciate spd doesn't always allow. DS2 figured the sensation of wearing was more tolerable than the noise he was avoiding.

Yes, Bishop, my dd2 has come to the same conclusion (although it means that she now shouts when she talks, as she can't modulate the level of her own voice when wearing headphones/defenders - 6 of one, half a dozen of the other ) but dd1 still won't let them anywhere near her. On a bad day, even the sight of dd2 getting hers out of her bag to use will prompt a minor meltdown from dd1

Never bloody straightforward, is it?

God apologies for typos, it's freezing here and my fingers don't want to work. I have given in and put the heating on.

panda ds2's language skills actually make his social interactions harder, the language that he uses and the way he speaks is much more adult than his peers. They just think he is odd... But although he has an amazing vocabulary and can speak well he doesn't pick up on any social cues so doesn't know to let other people talk, won't notice if others want him to shut up! Basically he doesn't notice or understand the 'rules' of social interaction, so can appear rude etc and struggles hugely with friendships and group situations.

I always carry ear defenders with me for Ds but he very rarely wants them on as he doesn't like the feel of them on.

Thats the same as my dd2, 5mad. She can't fit in for trying.

It's hard, ds2 is 13 and at high school, we have only just got his diagnosis after being in the system with camhs etc since yr 4 primary. As he has got older the social gap with his peers has just widened, the thing is he desperately wants to have friends and he tries so hard. He doesn't realise that they are often laughing at him rather than with him :( I am hoping at some point he will find his niche and a group of friends. I think perhaps at a level stage or older this may happen, I hope.