To think that if you were REALLY concerned about babies getting the best start...

[jorahmormont]

... you'd focus your efforts on complaining to the government about the lack of support for breastfeeding mothers, and protest against formula companies, rather than wasting energy trying to make formula-feeding mothers feel shit?

This isn't a discussion of FF vs BF. We all know the statistics by now, and we all know that only 2% medically can't BF etc, and that medical reasons aren't the only reasons women can't/choose not to BF, so it's not a debate of that.

It's just to ask... well, AIBU to think that people who do spend their time calling FF mums "artificial feeders" and telling them that they clearly don't love their kids as much and are second-rate mothers (and yes, it does happen - it's happening right now on a certain parenting site) aren't actually bothered about kids getting the best start, but rather making themselves feel superior?

And yes, I know IABU to start a thread about FF vs BF, because it's a stupid sodding debate and people need to stop treating motherhood as a competition. I know IABU to start this thread, please send , I need them right now

It works both ways though. I've seen formula advocates downright lying about breastfeeding benefits and trying to discourage people from breastfeeding.

And if it makes a difference I only breastfed for six weeks so I'm obviously not 'anti-formula' but I can at least admit that breastfeeding is much more nutritionally sound and is an incredible achievement.

YANBU.

The lack of support can be ridiculous. I have gestational diabetes and wanted advice on expressing and storing colostrum in case my baby is born struggling to control his blood glucose and needs top-up feeds.

My midwives had no idea, so I was directed to call the hospital's breastfeeding team. Someone got back to me with incorrect advice ('express into urine sample pots', er, no, the amount of colostrum is tiny and will be lost sticking to the sides) and I eventually learned it was a peer supporter who rang me back, not one of the specialist midwives, who did apologise and told me I was right in knowing I need to use oral syringes.

It's especially important to me because I've had breast cancer and may not be able to feed from the affected side due to my treatment, so I at least wanted to give colostrum and then take it from there.

But, you're right in that some women do use it as a means to feel superior, but I think they're the type who'd use any reason to make themselves feel that way anyway.

I wish everyone would stop being dicks and let mothers mother however they feel they can / are able to / want to mother (this excludes deliberately harmful behaviour towards baby, obviously)!

I agree. If what you mean is "can we all just get the fuck on with our lives and try to support each other in our choices?"

If jot that, then I'm not sure

I know it works both ways crumbly, my OP was one-sided, I apologise. It isn't right when either side does it, as the abuse on both sides has the side effect of reducing support for breastfeeding and breastfeeders, as it perpetuates the (incorrect) stereotype that they're all as sanctimonious as this small minority. And obviously formula advocates giving incorrect information means that pregnant women feel like there's no need to breastfeed, when it is preferable in most cases.

For me it wasn't about lack of support.
There was NO Bf support for a first time mum with a very poorly baby whose nipples leaked blood when the "nurses" tried to hand express and left me crying in pain (I had just given birth with no pain relief for reference)
I was so traumatised I didn't really try with ds2.
I couldnt go through that again :(
So I didn't.

There was no support whatsoever when I had my eldest - I struggled with a small 36 weeker who was put straight onto a heat pad after birth and I couldn't hold him for a while afterwards. I struggled so they gave me ready mixed formula and a cup for him.
With my second I had a bf 'counsellor' who was an utter cow that thought the best way to encourage me to bf DD at 3am was to grab my tit and shove it in her mouth while patronising me. I was one of several mums (some very young and vulnerable) who complained about her.
Third time I HB'd, avoided all that and went straight to formula.
So I agree - the lack of support and encouragement rather than patronising pity and sheer aggression towards women who are just trying to get through the early weeks of a new baby while healing themselves should be addressed.
Then everyone should butt out of other peoples business!

That was definitely what I meant For

YANBU.

Most women want to breastfeed, so focus efforts on enabling them to do so and leave the women who don't want to completely out of it (though I see a role for midwives to open the door to discussion during pregnancy, since women deserve to make an informed choice).

In an age where most of us are feminists and pro choice about abortion for example we should be pro choice about feeding also. Support should be available for BF and FF. I think both are equally valid and neither is better . It's swings and roundabouts. You lose in one area and gain in another.
As I was watching the children pour out of school today I mused that you can't tell how each was delivered or fed. Whether they co slept or had a sling . If they had a dummy or how and when they are weaned.

Why would you want to protest against FF companies when they can be a lifesaver for women who can't breastfeed. Formula is a perfectly legitimate choice for women whatever their reasons for not breastfeeding.

Very true tipple.
I get a bit pissed off with the "all f companies are evil" line trotted out.
Ff saved ds1s life.

I was reminded by a friend (when I was feeling very low and hormonal) that at his first job interview he will not be asked if he was ff or bf :)

Scrumpy I meant people might protest against the unethical stuff they do in third world countries. They've funded biased studies in the past too apparently. I am totally pro-formula being available, it saved DD's life :)

I agree scrumpy. Women may have many reasons to go straight to FF. certain medications, previous surgery, past abuse issues or frankly just plain choice which is perfectly valid.
I was lucky I never needed support. When I realised I didn't actually enjoy BF I swapped to FF. Apart from I felt guilt and actually I still do. I know I shouldn't but I do and maybe that's where I would have benefited from support.

YY Jorah agree over the unethical stuff in 3rd world countries

Yanbu. There just needs to be support for mothers in general.

I don't give a shit how people feed their babies as long as they are feeding them!!!

I ebf (for 19 months) and was once accused of neglect (and shouted at rather loudly by a completely random woman at a bus station) when my DD was about 6 weeks old because she couldn't see ff bottles and all the other gubbin's...when I explained that I was breastfeeding (and promptly sat down and "got my tits out" (

I just wish people would wind their necks in about other people's milk feeding choices, and concentrate on their own really.

So many people banging drums about BF/FF and yet nearly a quarter of British children under the age of five, are overweight or obese.

Clearly some people are taking their eye off the ball past the milk stage.

I found the opposite - the pressure to breastfeed was enormous. I did, both times, but as DS was huge and I had a csection plus a thyroid disorder and no milk, it took a lot of asking to find someone in the (fucking useless Edinburgh Simpsons) unit who would help me give him some formula to stop his hysteria.

I just don't get all the fuss..... as long as you aren't starving your baby I fail to get riled about your feeding choices. Same as weaning. You can puree the shit out of everything or give the baby a lump of steak, I don't really care.

In the interest of statistical relevance I have ff one child and bf the other. Both choices have merits and downsides and both choices suited my baby and me at the time.

100% agree with tipple

Tbh, I don't think it's the governments job to provide breastfeeding support. We don't need the government to do everything for us. I think it's the sort of thing that people should support each other with just because they're family or because they want to be part of the community. And there are organisations that provide bfing support if you look for them.

I can't see why we'd protest about formula companies either. Despite some of them using incredibly dodgy practice in the third world, people want them and need them.

It must depend on where you live. Here in the north west, BF was pushed very heavily by all midwives during pregnancy, and the NCT people on our course. As DS was born via EMCS and spent 5 days in the SCBU being fed through a tube though, he wouldn't latch on. I had every single midwife and neonatal nurse in the place trying to get him to do it, but he just wouldn't and started getting very upset. After everything we'd both been through, I felt enough was enough and stopped trying.

BF is pushed so hard that when, just after he was born and they'd noticed a problem with his blood sugars, they fed him formula with a cup in front of me, I cried so hard as I already felt like I'd failed.

I managed to express for 5 and a half weeks, but my milk never really came in and again I felt like I'd failed. I'm over it now, and he's absolutely thriving on formula, but it was one of the hardest things at the time.

When he was about 3 weeks old, I went to the GP and took DS with me. He was having a scream so she asked if I wanted to feed him. She looked completely aghast when I pulled out a bottle and said, 'Are you not breastfeeding?!'. I could have punched her, I really could. I didn't need any more guilt.

So yes, support needs to be there. But there does need to be a balance.

There should be support no matter what your choice is.

When DC1 was born I wanted to FF and had no support at all other than "milk cupboard is over there". I had no clue how to hold the bottle, how to wind him after, how much he 'should' be having, when to increase the amount, and so on.

With DC2 I wanted to BF but she didn't. She slept all night from birth, and by all night I mean she had a feed around 10pm and then didn't wake up for another until at least 8am. When she did feed she would feed for ten minutes maximum and that was it, so tiny amounts (even now she has a tiny appetite). The only advice I got was "wake her up and make her feed" which didn't work. I'd wake her and she'd give me a glare then go straight back to sleep. Supply quickly dwindled and she went into formula.

DC3 is BF and has been since birth. When he was newborn he shredded my left nipple, it cracked in a circle around the tip and then in a straight line across it and bith cracks would pull apart at each feed. To make it worse I got thrush in that nipple. I also felt like I was lactating ground glass as my let down on that side was a painful, prickly feeling. In addition he wasn't gaining weight, he dropped from 9lb to 8lb 2oz and stayed there so I started giving one formula feed on a morning. DH did the feed, it allowed me to have a sleep while he was doing it (was recovering from CS), gave my poor bleeding nipple a break, and it gave me a bit of breathing room. Did I get support? No, I got a cats bum face from the HV about how I'd "cause all sorts of problems" and that I needed to "cut that right out". Thankfully my own HV came out a few days later, told me that there was no harm in supplement in if that's what worked for me and that she'd help me to either continue to BF or stop the BF - whichever I wanted to do. I ended up BF, which we're still doing at 19mo.

HCP should give the intelligence of women some credit and allow them to make their own choice without pressure or judgement. They should then support that choice by providing whatever advice, help, or support the woman needs.

In the current economic climate (austerity and all that), I think support for non essential services will be cut hard. Including breastfeeding support and other post natal services. I don't think that complaining to the govt will get anywhere, but it might at least make you feel like you've had a say!