To think that if you were REALLY concerned about babies getting the best start...

[jorahmormont]

... you'd focus your efforts on complaining to the government about the lack of support for breastfeeding mothers, and protest against formula companies, rather than wasting energy trying to make formula-feeding mothers feel shit?

This isn't a discussion of FF vs BF. We all know the statistics by now, and we all know that only 2% medically can't BF etc, and that medical reasons aren't the only reasons women can't/choose not to BF, so it's not a debate of that.

It's just to ask... well, AIBU to think that people who do spend their time calling FF mums "artificial feeders" and telling them that they clearly don't love their kids as much and are second-rate mothers (and yes, it does happen - it's happening right now on a certain parenting site) aren't actually bothered about kids getting the best start, but rather making themselves feel superior?

And yes, I know IABU to start a thread about FF vs BF, because it's a stupid sodding debate and people need to stop treating motherhood as a competition. I know IABU to start this thread, please send , I need them right now

I think it depends how that support is delivered. The best advice I got (first time round)was from a hv who had BF herself, my midwife was all text book in her approach as had not had DCs herself and just reeled off what she had been taught. I'm wondering if that's why some of the time women aren't getting the best advice or help. As for FF advice in our area, there was none.

My HV is now pregnant with her first. I hope she feels eternally ashamed when she realises what a tremendous twat she's been to (probably to a fair few) stressed new mothers.

Supermanspants
Really don't understand your point. Yes, we were made to breastfeed but that doesn't make it easy and doesn't undermine how hard breastfeeding mothers have worked? Doing a poo is easy.

And yes, it is the best start for children in most cases and I was broken up that I couldn't give my DD more than six weeks worth of breast milk but I don't try to justify my formula feeding by degrading breastfeeding and can appreciate it's merits and praise breastfeeding mothers.

One of the midwives in hospital also told me after I was kept in for three days (after a textbook delivery) because DS wouldn't feed that she could only talk to me about exclusive BFing because those were the guidelines. This was while I was sobbing because she had also just told me that DS was starving and dehydrated because he wouldn't BF!

I 100% believe that breast is best, but it often doesn't happen so the advice needs to be tailored to both types of feeding.

If anyone's worried about the leukaemia thing, here's some interesting info from epidemiologists commenting on a recent review of the topic: www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-investigating-breastfeeding-and-risk-of-childhood-leukaemia/

Summary: there is no proven link between breastfeeding and reduction in childhood leukaemia risk (a rare disease, by the way, affecting 1 in 2000 kids)

In spite of this, the bumpf I've got from the NHS claims that there is. Which is a pity, because it makes me wonder how much of the other info they give me is a steaming pile of scaremongering shite.

Just to add to pp. I'm not saying that a hcp who has had DCs always knows better but I personally benefitted that time.

Wow chilli you should've said earlier - of course, the fact that you got support has a knock-on effect and makes all of us able to breastfeed, doesn't it?

Knew it wouldn't be long until the 'people who don't even try are selfish' opinions came crawling out of the woodwork too. It's none of anyone else's business.

I got advice on ff in hospital (sheet with instructions on safely making up a bottle), and I wasn't even ff or planning to, so it's not like national NHS guidelines are No Guidance About Formula Ever. Some midwives and HVs are clearly a bit crap, though.

I was lucky. I got incredible support for bf. Whilst in hospital I got sensible and sensitive advice from midwives and support workers on the ward, any time of the day or night. After I was discharged I got daily visits from either a mw or support worker until I was happy that bfing was established. So they can get it right. Sadly, it seems that this is the exception rather than the rule.

I never got the hang of making and feeding bottles though.

MrsDeVere My point was that this debate of ff v bf these days is more to do with snobbery; back in the "old" days as it were, people just did what they thought was best for baby.

Of course infant mortality was higher 100 years ago, but not just through feeding. Poverty, cold, lack of medication etc all contributed. But I do believe mothers relied more on their instincts back then,rather than seeking reassurance from someone else.

That's not a bad thing surely? Maybe we should trust ourselves more.

MrsDeVere sorry for your loss.
And well said about the scaremongering tactics used by some.

Sorry to hear about your daughter MDV

This is my point exactly. No matter how mums want to feed their kids, are they any less loved / wanted/ needed?

People should just butt the fuck out.

There are a few HCPs out there who sadly don't understand that of course they are "allowed" to talk about formula, and that if someone needs help with FF they should in fact be helping them do so. It's against guidelines to promote a particular formula (for good reasons) but sending people off with nothing more than "read the box" is very poor.

"It's just to ask... well, AIBU to think that people who do spend their time calling FF mums "artificial feeders" and telling them that they clearly don't love their kids as much and are second-rate mothers"

I need to read back through the thread, but who actually has done this to you?

...AIBU to think that people who do spend their time calling FF mums "artificial feeders" and telling them that they clearly don't love their kids as much and are second-rate mothers (and yes, it does happen - it's happening right now on a certain parenting site) aren't actually bothered about kids getting the best start, but rather making themselves feel superior?

YANBU if there are people saying these things.

But YABU that you think all BF mums say these things.

I've never referred to 'artificial feeding' which is an absurd title for parents who choose to ff.

As a parent and a person who has worked on increasing BF support in the area, I've never come across so much red tape and misunderstanding of BF'ing by new mums, dads, midwives, hv's and management in the NHS.

Our area has significantly cut the BF support and are placing the support and education on the HV team and midwives who are already pushed to their limits in terms of time, resources and knowledge.

Explaining the feelings and thoughts of new mums struggling to feed, and of new mums who have had support and successfully managed to feed, to councils and the NHS big wigs et al has been the hardest thing ever.

They just don't get it.

IME, many people don't get the huge consequences on mums who want to BF and can't / don't because of lack of support.

Post natal depression, anxiety, bonding issues and feelings of guilt are just a few implications of lack of support. These issue can be long term and IMO women shouldn't feel like this just because the support isn't there.

It's frustrating for me that ff mums feel like shit because a scarce few people say the wrong things on forums like this. It's far more frustrating for me that in general, women who carry a child for 9 months, labour for hours and go through excruciating pain to birth, still do not consistently receive the right amount of support afterwards in how they wish to feed their child or their post natal care being consistently adequate. That's the argument we should all be involved in, not the BF/ff debate.

But I do believe mothers relied more on their instincts back then,rather than seeking reassurance from someone else.

It's not just instinct. Breastfeeding is something you have to learn. If you were born 400 years ago, you'd have grown up seeing breastfeeding everywhere all the time, and you'd have mothers/sisters/aunts/friends around you who'd breastfed their own children, so when you had a baby you'd be all set up for knowing how to do it. That's why mothers today in societies where everyone breastfeeds are a lot less likely to experience problems than mothers in societies where breastfeeding rates are lower.

It isn't just humans, either. Gorillas and chimps born in captivity struggle to breastfeed if they've never seen other mothers feeding their babies.

nicole as I said in the OP, it's been happening all afternoon on a certain parenting site - not said directly to me (I have a toddler, tbh as long as she's not eating fluff and mud it's a good day as far as I'm concerned) but to several new mums already struggling with the guilt, they're piling on and saying 'Why didn't you use a donor? Why didn't you use a wet nurse? Why didn't you try harder? Other mums try harder, clearly your baby's health isn't that important to you. BF mums are better'.

MI6 I didn't say that all BF mums think like this. It's a very small (but unfortunately vocal) minority.

It's also just kicked off on a Facebook page about a news article discussing research which suggests BF may not have a huge effect on IQ.

Artificial feeding is a vile term to use for anyone ff it make me feel just reading it.

*makes

It's always a minority jorah but it's always talked about especially online, more so than in real life.

I don't think I've come across one BF mum talking badly of an ff mum in RL. It's ridiculous and cruel and doesn't happen in general.

'Why didn't you use a donor? Why didn't you use a wet nurse? Why didn't you try harder? Other mums try harder, clearly your baby's health isn't that important to you. BF mums are better'.

Someone actually said that?