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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To tell DD she doesn't have to do the 11+

197 replies

Reluctantdiary · 14/09/2015 12:27

She is due to take it at the end of this month. We've had a tutor for the last six months for the usual reasons (test format, NVR etc). Tutor says she is fine and has a good chance of getting in.

However...I was just cleaning DD's room and found her diary open under her quilt. And yes I know I shouldn't have looked but I took a quick peek at the page it was open on. She really really REALLY does not want to do the 11+. Lots of stuff about being worried about the test, not passing, letting her dad down (he is the main protagonist behind the test). Also some other stuff about not having any friends there and a horrible bit about not feeling good enough and maybe lying about feeling sick on the day. Then a bit about failing on purpose with a sad face afterwards. She wants to go to the school where her mates are going, which is a good school, not amazing but certainly not a sink school.

So when she gets home i'm going to tell her we are binning the test and she can go to the local school instead. There is no need for her to be worrying and stressing about it at 10 years old when the alternative is fine.

AIBU or am I doing the wrong thing in not telling her to pursue it? I really felt that we had got across to her that it didn't matter either way and that we were proud of her but obviously we haven't.

Also part of me is thinking she left the diary where she knew I would find it?

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 14/09/2015 12:30

YANBU

It does sound like a bit of a cry for help.

Iggly · 14/09/2015 12:31

I'd have a chat with her and your DH as well. What would your DH say if you did this?

LindyHemming · 14/09/2015 12:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

redexpat · 14/09/2015 12:39

I think you should talk to your dh first. Show him the diary.

I dont really count wanting to go to the same school as your current friends a valid reason because friendships change. Lots of people arrive in y7 not knowing anyone and I dont think it is a disadvantage when lots of them are in the same boat.

I think the part about not wanting to let her Dad down is more worrying.

Could you agree to take the test and make decisions about school afterwards? I dont know if that's an option with the way things work. It might allay fears of not being good enough if she passes, and would take the pressure off on the day. Although there is still no guarantee that she wont sabotage.

Mydearchild · 14/09/2015 12:39

Ah i can relate 100% to this. My dd also had tutoring for a good while and was very keen to sit the exam, however the test came closer she decided she no longer wanted to sit it. Her main reasons were lack of friends, it being an all girls school and not wanting a highly academic environment in which to go through her senior school years (we are in Birmingham so its fiercely competitive). We decided that dd is sensible girl and that it is her choice so she didn't sit it. Dd started senior school last Monday and absolutely loves it, she said many times how glad she is that she didn't take the test. It was 100% the right decision for her.

Imo i don't think any child should be pushed into sitting it if they really don't want to. My ds sat it on Saturday, completely his choice (no tutor) and when i asked him how he got on - he thinks he managed to answer around half of the questions!! Who is you dd sitting the test for? your dh is not a good enough answer - have a gentle chat to her later and try and talk through her reasons for not wanting to sit it.

InimitableJeeves · 14/09/2015 12:39

I agree YANBU. But surely you need at least to tell DH about this first rather than taking a decision unilaterally?

BathshebaDarkstone · 14/09/2015 12:41

YANBU. She really doesn't want to go to grammar school.

Moonatic · 14/09/2015 12:42

Why don't you have a good chat with her about all this? For one thing, it's not the end of the world to fail an exam, so she can take it and see how she gets on.
I don't know what your local schools are like, but I wouldn't let my 10 year old choose her school simpy because that's where her friends are going. Loads of children make an entirely new set of friends at secondary, anyway.

Original poster

Reluctantdiary · 14/09/2015 12:44

DH is ex DH.

I went to the grammar school she is testing for and ex DH went to the boys in the same town. I know what he will say already, he'll say we are letting her down by not pushing her, you are letting her emotionally bribe you and why would you settle for less than the best if it is available.

All the same things he said when we first discussed which school to apply to.

DD is naturally anxious and i'm not 100% that it will be the best environment for her.

Further complicated by the fact that one of my friends teaches at the school and has mentioned the high rates of eating disorders and stress among the girls. I loved going there and don't remember that stuff at all.

OP posts:

Aeroflotgirl · 14/09/2015 12:45

Yanbu at all, you need to talk to your dh, ask dd permission to show him the diary. The bottom line is, I would not make her do it, her not wanting to do an unesessary test is good enough reason not to.

Original poster

Reluctantdiary · 14/09/2015 12:45

When we first discussed it I said to him that I wasn't sure it was the best place for her compared to other options. I wasn't completely against it but not 100% sure.

OP posts:

SitsOnFence · 14/09/2015 12:46

Poor thing

I'm so glad we are not in an 11+ area. If it was my daughter I'd probably try to hide the fact you'd read her diary (I have died if my mother had read mine!) and say you are worried about her, she seems stressed, etc and you were wondering if it was the 11+ I'd say she didn't have to talk about it, but that she should know that if she decided not to take it you would be 100% behind her.

It might also be worth bearing in mind that she might really want to pass it, but just be suffering from terrible exam anxiety. A school friend has this and it can be really acute. At A Level, this friend managed to convince everyone, including herself, that she no longer wanted to go to university but, to her surprise, instantly changed her mind when her results came in. She was protecting herself from the stress and possible failure. If it is exam anxiety she might benefit from taking it but in a completely 'no pressure' way. For example, you might visit the local comp, plan her journey there and treat it as a complete fait accompli but then say, if she fancied sitting the test just 'for fun' she could still do that.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 14/09/2015 12:46

I wouldn't tell her anything yet. I would have a chat with her and find out how she really feels. Going to secondary school is going to stir up all sorts of unsettled feelings no matter which school she is going to. You might need to dig a bit to see if its general anxiety or more specific. The other thing to deal with is her fears of the consequences of failing the exams. The only consequence should be that she goes to a non-selective school, she hasn't let anyone down or failed your DH anyone.

DS1 is sitting 13+ entrance exams this year and I have made it clear to him that whatever the results my view of him won't change. If he doesn't pass one then that school just wasn't the right one for him so he can go somewhere that will suit him better instead.

Aeroflotgirl · 14/09/2015 12:47

He is your ex dh, says it all really. I personally woukd not force her to do it. You have to look after your dd well being and best interests.

ManorGreyhound · 14/09/2015 12:58

YABU, whilst I am generally in favour of DCs having their voices heard, this is a situation in which you need to show some leadership.

Part of being a good parent is obtaining buy-in from your DCs is situations where they have to do something they aren't keen on for a greater long-term benefit. (See also dentist visits etc...).

You need to 'sell' this to her as being a better chance of good exam results, good university, better shot at career, nicer house/being able to travel/retire well...this is a crucial point in her life and you are copping out by letting her take the path of least resistance.

titchy · 14/09/2015 13:01

Well until you read her diary you were going along with that school, so on one level you must have thought it was a decent viable option. So no I wouldn't be telling her she doesn't have to take it. Apart from anything else it isn't just your decision.

You absolutely do need to talk to your child, and reassure her until you are blue in the face. But also bear in mind that sometimes kids write things down that they don't actually mean as much as it sounds on paper. She clearly has some worries which you (and her df) need to address, but her worries aren't really based on valid concerns are they - she'll make new friends easily enough, most kids are nervous about taking exams, and sometimes kids fail stuff - that's kind of normal. And you need to normalise this for her. And if she passes imagine how great she'll feel. It's not good to avoid things for fear of failure tbh.

EnchanciaAnthem · 14/09/2015 13:04

Can I offer a different perspective?

I was your DD 15 years ago. I was from a council estate and a rough school, but I was very bright indeed. I had the opportunity to take the 11+ to get into the grammar school in the next county.

I protested. I didn't want to do it, I wanted to go to the local secondary school with my friends. My parents didn't make me do it, didn't try and talk me into it - just left me to it.

I went to the local school. I very quickly moved away from my primary school friends and became very lonely, actually. The school was terrible - which your DD's other option might not be, I understand that. But mine was and I was bullied for being a 'swat' so I stopped trying, didn't do badly but not as well as I could have done and nobody really cared. I lost interest in education.

The point of this is not that your DD won't do well, I'm sure she will as you sound like a parent who will be supportive no matter what. I'm writing this as an adult who was once an 11 year old who was sure I didn't want to do it - but now, with the benefit of hindsight, I absolutely wish that I would have been made to do it. I wasn't mature enough to decide and if I could go back I would. It did matter that much.

The funny thing is, my DH went to that grammar school - he would have actually been in my year. As would my 3 best friends who were bridesmaids at my wedding. I met them at my first job the year I left school.

And to think, they were the people I didn't want to meet!

Good luck OP.

Dragonglass · 14/09/2015 13:05

YANBU My son was going to take the 11+ last year but we decided against it. He gets stressed and anxious and we felt that even if he passed the test, the grammar school environment would be too much for him. He started at our local school last week and is settling in well and seems to be very happy.

ManorGreyhound · 14/09/2015 13:05

It's not good to avoid things for fear of failure tbh.

This.

Actually, somebody up thread suggested her taking the exam and then having the discussion about schools later. This sounds like a good plan to me; makes the exam itself seem less of a big deal and gives you some time to work on reframing the whole grammar school idea in her mind...

RachelZoe · 14/09/2015 13:06

I wouldn't bin the idea of the test completely but I would take the pressure off her. Have a good chat about why this test is a good idea and that it gives her more options etc. Make it clear that she doesn't have to pass and she won't be in trouble and it doesn't matter if she doesn't pass it, that nobody will be disappointed etc. Emphasize that it is for another option, it's not the be all and end all, also explain that you understand this is a hard time for her and also that she might not automatically get to go to the school with her mates anyway, explain the system to her.

You really need to speak to her father if possible as well, if he is pressurizing her to that degree, it's not on.

I know this is all very difficult, I hope you and DD feel a bit better about it soon

Panicmode1 · 14/09/2015 13:11

I understand why you are feeling like this - my DD has just sat the 11+ here in Kent. My eldest DS passed last year extremely well and has gone to a superselective, so I was very mindful of the pressure she was piling on herself to do well - she's equally as bright, but less confident of her abilities.

As the test got closer, my DD got more and more anxious, despite her tutor and us trying our hardest to bolster her confidence. She said she didn't want to sit it, but I sat her down with DH and myself and we chatted through what she was afraid of, why she thought she'd fail, when she's always done well in tests in school - and explained about why it gave her a choice. If she passes, then she can choose whether or not to go to the grammar or the local comprehensive, which is also very good. But if she didn't take it, she wouldn't have that choice and may be sad if her friends were able to make a choice she'd denied herself. I also explained that it widens her life chances and opportunities - the comprehensive is very good, but they do send fewer children to RG uni than the grammar school and it does have more opportunities for the extra curricular things that she wants to do - sport, music, drama etc.

She did take it, and came out saying that it wasn't nearly as bad as she thought it was going to be, and that hopefully she'd done enough to pass, and was glad she'd done it. Obviously we don't yet know if she's done enough - but I'm proud that she gave it her all and "faced her fears and did it anyway".

I agree with ManorGreyhound - that an adult is going to make a better long term decision for a child than the child can because they can see the 'greater good' argument. No-one likes exams, visits to dentists, mad great aunts visiting or similar, but sometimes we have to just grin and bear it and get on with things, because that's life and if you think that your DD can pass the test and will flourish at the school (which you must have done before you entered her for the test) then I think you have to stand by the decision and not let her get swayed by nerves this close to the test. What does it teach her if she gives up at the last hurdle?

MrsGentlyBenevolent · 14/09/2015 13:12

I wasn't in an 11+ area, so my mother chose for me to go to a 'better' school instead. I don't know about your daughter, but I was an introvert, and being pushed into a better rated school but losing all my friends was not worth it. My partner's mum did the same to him, he's never forgiven it. Yes, you go to school for the education, but any child destined for a good university/career will get there anyway. Just because you went to a highly rated school, doesn't mean you get 'first dibbs' on these things. Do you think she left the diary so you'd find it? Sounds like she didn't try and hide it too well, and she's too worried to actually vocalise it with you.

See if you can find a compromise. Ask if she will sit the exam, but if she passes all final choices are up to her. No one will make her go to a different school, or be disappointed in her either way.

Micah · 14/09/2015 13:14

I'd let her test, on the understanding that it doesn't matter if she passes or fails, ultimately the choice of school she goes to is hers.

jeee · 14/09/2015 13:18

Please ignore this advice from ManorGreyhoud - if your dd is already feeling stressed the last thing she needs is extra pressure. Actually, she needs to be told it's one test, on one day. She may pass it, she may not. But it isn't going to be the defining point of her life (retirement plans are not generally affected by a test taken at 10 years old).

I think you and your ex-H need to talk, and then you need to have a conversation with the three of you.

And please, reassure her - if she takes the test, it's not going to decide the rest of her life. No test is that important. Ever. There are always other ways of succeeding.

jorahmormont · 14/09/2015 13:18

Ask her to keep her options open - take the 11+, and don't fail on purpose, but make sure she knows that even if she passes, you won't force her to go to the grammar school, and it will be a joint decision with everybody. Let her know that there is no pressure, and that you are on her side, not her father's - if he criticises her for failing, you will stand up for her, not him.

Many universities actually now have quotas to fill of pupils from the non-grammar/non-private schools - some are more likely to give a pupil from a comprehensive a place than any other pupil, because they acknowledge that a high achieving state school pupil hasn't had all the opportunities and more intense schooling that comes with private and grammar education, so they have had to put more work in.

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