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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To tell DD she doesn't have to do the 11+

197 replies

Reluctantdiary · 14/09/2015 12:27

She is due to take it at the end of this month. We've had a tutor for the last six months for the usual reasons (test format, NVR etc). Tutor says she is fine and has a good chance of getting in.

However...I was just cleaning DD's room and found her diary open under her quilt. And yes I know I shouldn't have looked but I took a quick peek at the page it was open on. She really really REALLY does not want to do the 11+. Lots of stuff about being worried about the test, not passing, letting her dad down (he is the main protagonist behind the test). Also some other stuff about not having any friends there and a horrible bit about not feeling good enough and maybe lying about feeling sick on the day. Then a bit about failing on purpose with a sad face afterwards. She wants to go to the school where her mates are going, which is a good school, not amazing but certainly not a sink school.

So when she gets home i'm going to tell her we are binning the test and she can go to the local school instead. There is no need for her to be worrying and stressing about it at 10 years old when the alternative is fine.

AIBU or am I doing the wrong thing in not telling her to pursue it? I really felt that we had got across to her that it didn't matter either way and that we were proud of her but obviously we haven't.

Also part of me is thinking she left the diary where she knew I would find it?

OP posts:

titchy · 15/09/2015 14:51

Gosh where do I fit in then multivac - my kids at at my second choice comp!

dreamingofsun · 15/09/2015 15:15

multivac - issue is that not everyone can have their plan A's. your plan A sounds as if its non segragated comps, my plan A is either grammars or at least highly segregated comps.

alas, our local comp wasn't segregated for most subjects, only maths and english. this meant my kids were in classes with not very academic/bright kids, who played up and made loads of noise because they didn't really want to study anyway. Making it much harder for the teachers and my kids to study

multivac · 15/09/2015 15:20

Multivac, children in comprehensives are segregated. Pupils in the top sets rarely share classroom space with lesser ability pupils. Perhaps a token PE session twice a week

Not in the one my kids are going to; guess what my stance is on setting/streaming?

Gosh where do I fit in then multivac - my kids at at my second choice comp

Where do you fit into what?

Fine multi I'm sure the OP will find your views and activism terribly helpful in her situation

The OP has had a helpful talk with her daughter, who has decided to give the test a go, with no pressure. My views and activism aren't really relevant to her, are they?

KevinAndMe · 15/09/2015 15:24

I have to say I would love that there was a grammar where I live.
Dc1 is bright and mature. He us just not fitting in with the children in his school (primary or secondary). He is bored. It would do him a lot of good to be in a selective grammar where he could finally find people that are on the same level than him.
Mixed abilities, mixed background us good when you still have a core group of people similar to you. It isn't when you end up being singled out.

In the same way you can look at the 'segregation' the grammars do the same way. Do you tely think it's helpful in any shape or form for the children with lower abilities to have someone in their class who answers questions at GCSE level when they are in Y7? It's a pain the bright kid. It's pain for the less able children who are just lost.

KevinAndMe · 15/09/2015 15:27

That's why you need to look fir a school that best fits YOUR child.
It might be that grammar is the type if school that would work best. Why stopping g your dc to go to the best school for them on ideological grounds, YOUR ideological grounds.
In the same way why force a child to go to grammar 'because they've chances are better' if it rely doesn't fit them?

whois · 15/09/2015 15:31

My comp did not stream except for Maths in year 7-9. Then they streamed Maths, Science and languages for GCSE. That's right, they did not stream English at all, or any other subject.

How on earth do you teach a class which has some people on for A* and some on for a U effectively? You don't.

I am in favor of highly streamed comps with fluid re-streaming at every term. If you only look at results at the end of the year, you make it harder for people to move up as they might have missed quite a bit of work the set above had covered.

multivac · 15/09/2015 15:31

Kevinandme, I said from the start that our children will be going to the school that is best for them. I've also not suggested that anyone else, including the OP, should reject grammar schools on my ideological grounds.

I do think it's worth examining the conventional wisdom of what 'best' means when it comes to a school, though. And also the implications of 'giving it your best shot but not being disheartened if you don't get it' when it comes to a school place.

ExConstance · 15/09/2015 15:43

I agree with Jeee to quite an extent. There is one thing that I've noticed with my two sons which is relevant. They both passed their 11+ exams and were relieved to find most of their closest friends had too and would also be going to grammar school. By the end of the first year they had both moved into new friendship with boys who had come from other schools and by the end of the second year they had very little to do at all with their original friends. Moving on to secondary school seems to inevitably open up rotes into new friendships, so I'm sure your daughter will be fine from that perspective is she decides to go ahead and sit the exam.

WhoreGasm · 15/09/2015 15:59

Multivac you have stunned me. I think you must be the first MN I have ever read who freely admits that her DCs are at a totally unstreamed comp

On MN I have only ever heard tell of rigorously streamed comprehensives, which are actually easily as academically successful (if not more so) than their nearest grammar counterparts. Where they have nationally successful debate teams, and mathematics teams, and internationally recognised choirs and orchestras and where half the sixth form reliably go to Oxbridge every year etc.

Your comprehensive must be a real dinosaur

WhoreGasm · 15/09/2015 16:01

But having said that multi, you are clearly articulate and engaged with your DCs education so I reckon they'll do very well at your 'bizarre' comp

BertrandRussell · 15/09/2015 16:09

"On MN I have only ever heard tell of rigorously streamed comprehensives, which are actually easily as academically successful (if not more so) than their nearest grammar counterparts. Where they have nationally successful debate teams, and mathematics teams, and internationally recognised choirs and orchestras and where half the sixth form reliably go to Oxbridge every year etc."

Don't talk bollocks. It's this sort of ridiculous pronouncement that makes sensible discussion of the subject impossible. And contributes to the unfair negative image of grammar school parents.

WhoreGasm · 15/09/2015 16:13

Much like your ridiculous statement that if you support selective education, then you can't care at all about any child other than your own, yes?

HoneyDragon · 15/09/2015 16:15

Op, brilliant ..... It must have been hard for both of you, but it's a good positive for your relationship that you've had this conversation.

Do the test for the option. Next step is to pick the right school for your dd, and you've plenty of time to research, question and discuss it.

People have posted plenty of anecdotes about successes and achievements but the fact remains, a grammar school is still a school. Do treat it as just another school when deciding.

I'm really pleased though that you are in a better position to support your dad now you know how she's feeling parenting is a tough gig.

WhoreGasm · 15/09/2015 16:16

Or, like your statement that if you support selective education then you are also the type of (presumably) idiot who believes ' 3 impossible things before breakfast'.

Not an especially sensible contribution to the discussion, eh?

HoneyDragon · 15/09/2015 16:27

The most important critical thing about both Primary and Secondary education is to not be a massive bellend over it.

BertrandRussell · 15/09/2015 16:32

If you support selective education, you have to accept that you are also supporting sending the majority of children to schools you would not wish to send your own children to. Ergo, you do not particularly care what happens to children not your own.

If you believe that failing the 11+ has no impact, or is even beneficial because it teaches a valuable lesson about failure, that it is exactly the same as not doing well in a ballet exam, or that nobody notices what badge you wear on your blazer, then you are quite capable of believing 3 impossible things before breakfast.

HTH

WhoreGasm · 15/09/2015 16:35

Probably the wisest words on the whole thread Honeydragon

Interesting discussion today, thanks. I am now off to prepare dinner for our off spring, and thence to look on in mute incomprehension at their maths homework. They very kindly humour me by pretending I might have a clue how to help them, before sensibly waiting for DH to get home I fuckin hate Tuesdays

WhoreGasm · 15/09/2015 16:44

Bertrand, I do not wish to send my children to a boarding school, or a Catholic school, or a Steiner school. Does this also preclude me, or other parents with the same wishes, from not caring about any other children than our own?

You make a fatuous statement.

And I never said that failing the 11+ has no impact. Of course it does. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction etc.

But I certainly will never believe that failing the test marks you as a 'failure' as a person, or a 'failure' in life.

And I speak as someone who is spectacularly failing to understand her Yr 7 DCs maths homework

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 15/09/2015 16:47

Multivac, children in comprehensives are segregated. Pupils in the top sets rarely share classroom space with lesser ability pupils. Perhaps a token PE session twice a week

With every ounce of the respect due here, that's bollocks. My daughter today has had 2 x form period, lunchtime (and didn't get beaten up, either!!), senior choir, art and History in non-set groups. Her closest friends are not all in the top set for everything, and some aren't in it for anything.

You know how people say that just because their child is at a private or a grammar school, that doesn't mean said child exists in a bubble and doesn't know any state-educated children? The same is true of being in some top sets for some subjects, and if anything it's quite a lot more likely to be the case.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 15/09/2015 16:50

I'm not sure whether that's deliberate hyperbole in an attempt at humour, outright lying, or just profound failure in comprehension. It's certainly laughable. And of course you don't really need to be told that comprehensives don't have 'grammar counterparts', do you?

PerspicaciaTick · 15/09/2015 16:53

My DD is the only child from her primary school who has gone to her GS. So far she is enjoying the chance to reinvent herself.

I'm glad the OP was able to talk to her DD - keeping options open for as long as possible is a good idea...and no "what ifs" at the end of it all.

BertrandRussell · 15/09/2015 17:06

"Bertrand, I do not wish to send my children to a boarding school, or a Catholic school, or a Steiner school. Does this also preclude me, or other parents with the same wishes, from not caring about any other children than our own?"

The existence of such schools does not have a direct impact on the school's the majority in the area go to in the way that grammar schools do. Not getting in to one of those schools does not mean that you failed a test. There is no comparison.

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