To tell DD she doesn't have to do the 11+

[Reluctantdiary]

She is due to take it at the end of this month. We've had a tutor for the last six months for the usual reasons (test format, NVR etc). Tutor says she is fine and has a good chance of getting in.

However...I was just cleaning DD's room and found her diary open under her quilt. And yes I know I shouldn't have looked but I took a quick peek at the page it was open on. She really really REALLY does not want to do the 11+. Lots of stuff about being worried about the test, not passing, letting her dad down (he is the main protagonist behind the test). Also some other stuff about not having any friends there and a horrible bit about not feeling good enough and maybe lying about feeling sick on the day. Then a bit about failing on purpose with a sad face afterwards. She wants to go to the school where her mates are going, which is a good school, not amazing but certainly not a sink school.

So when she gets home i'm going to tell her we are binning the test and she can go to the local school instead. There is no need for her to be worrying and stressing about it at 10 years old when the alternative is fine.

AIBU or am I doing the wrong thing in not telling her to pursue it? I really felt that we had got across to her that it didn't matter either way and that we were proud of her but obviously we haven't.

Also part of me is thinking she left the diary where she knew I would find it?

OP has your DD actually visited the grammar? It might help her to actually see it, and have a chance to see some of the girls and chat to some of the pupils.

Could you ask around and see if you know of any other girls locally who are hoping to get into the grammar and perhaps arrange a meet up for your DD and them. I take it that none of her friends from her primary are going which is a shame.

Could you 'sell' it to her by emphasising the (usually excellent) grammar clubs and activities which may well not be available at the local comprehensive.

I would encourage her to do her very best on the day of the 11+, and then at least (assuming she passes) you have all the options available to you.

You could suggest she tries the grammar for one year, and then can transfer out if still not happy.

As regards 'wanting to stay with her friends' that's natural. But friendship groups aren't the be all and end all.

Both our DDs went to their grammar with long standing good friends from their primary. But within a few days they had already branched out and met lots of new friends anyway.

DD is now in Yr 8, and doesn't spend much time with her old primary friends anymore. It's her 'new' friends at the grammar that she spends her weekends with, or who come over to do homework etc.

She has also invested lots of time and money in a tutor its wasteful to let all that go too.

My boys have sat the 11+. The emphasis was on practising one hour a week, enjoying the puzzles, doing simply their personal best in the exam and not caring if they pass or fail. You can explain to your DD that if she passes or doesn't pass the test, it doesn't matter because both schools are great opportunities. Aim to give it a go for fun.

I'd talk to DH in private and explain how much he is stressing her.

I agree that a grammar is a poor choice for an anxious perfectionist child

i spent a year trying to get my son to move to his current sixth form. he didn't want to as all his friends were staying at previous not so good school and we had loads of arguments. He grudgingly agreed at the very last minute and is now flourishing. Has made loads of new friends and is so glad he didn't stay at the not so good school. His exam results are great and he knows this will allow him to do what he wants at uni and likely get a really good career.

sometimes parents have to take a broader view and encourage a child to do things they don't really want to, so that they get better opportunities. I think you need to find ways to be supportive, and not allow her to limit her chances....no doubt this has already been said.

It is horried when they fail though. I've had 1 that passed and 2 that just missed out - one of which is the child above, who is now doing best of all at this stage. if you pass everything then you really aren't stretching yourself enough and are missing out on things

Has the tutor said how likely she is to pass. If she's only going to scrape through, I wouldn't consider grammar school at all.

my son only just scraped through and after the initial term he was fine. it was a bit of a shock at first (I felt the same when i was a kid) but I think thats the case for a lot of kids and not just the borderline ones. Personally i wouldn't let that put you off. Not all of the subjects studied will be those tested in the 11+ so it doesn't nec mean they will struggle.

I'd look at the other schools in the area, too, OP before making your decsion. There is not one extra curricular activity offered at any of the Grammars round here that wasn't offered at my DC's comp. Infact, the comp offered more.

My DSes left school with all As and As in their GCSEs, DS1 got AAB and DS2 got AAB at A level. Both got into their chosen university (DS1 decided not to go). Going to a grammar school is not the be all and end all of life. The vast majorit of children in the country do very, very well despite not going to one.

I agree that a grammar is a poor choice for an anxious perfectionist child

Depends on the school!

"You need to 'sell' this to her as being a better chance of good exam results, good university, better shot at career, nicer house/being able to travel/retire well...this is a crucial point in her life and you are copping out by letting her take the path of least resistance."

Errr, bollocks. I have done all of that without going to a grammar school.

OP, be guided by your DD. It sounds as though she is reacting to the pressure of being put through the test. I think we put children under too much pressure at too young an age these days. Let her be a child for a little longer if that is what she wants, and if, as you say, the local schools are perfectly fine. Grammar school is not the be-all and end-all that it is sometimes touted as. Top set in a good comprehensive can be just as good.

My DD1 did the 11+ and went to a super-selective grammar school. Whilst she did enjoy it, it meant a very long day and personally I feel that we "lost" our daughter to the school. We hardly saw her, and when we did she was always under pressure. Adacemia was everything there, and if your grades were not A or A* then the school considered you to have failed. Even a B was a failure according to them. It really put me off going the same route again with DD3, the only other of our daughters who might have been suited for it. She is now doing well in the top set of our fairly good local comprehensive.

• Attending a pushy school (as some are) as an anxious or perfectionist child is not necessarily going to be a comfortable experience

There will also be some super pushy teachers in the top sets at comps.

In fact top sets at comps could be compared to a streaming, elitist grammar system by creaming off the best and squirreling them away from the others who they will only vaguely interact with at lunch or sports

topy

I suppose the internet may not have been around then? as now its fairly easy to chat to people about the schools ethos and how hard they are on academia and so on.

I would be honest with her - tell her how you found her diary (which she may well have left for you to 'accidentally' find), and 'look, let's have a chat about it'.

Be matter of fact - tell her that actually there is NO pressure to pass, if she does she does, if she doesn't she doesn't - and you are incredibly proud of her for persisting with the tutoring when she felt so anxious.

Suggest she does a pros and cons list of just sitting the exam - and explain (if it is true) that if she passes she then has a CHOICE - she doesn't have to choose the grammar.

Can you go back to this year's Open Days before the CAF has to be in?

I would say that as she has done the majority of the work, with only 2 weeks left to go, she might as well take the exam - but that it is completely her choice. If she doesn't want to take it, she needn't.

But I would discuss it and give her the choice, which gives her some control and puts the power back in her hands. Which might in itself give her the confidence to have a go at the exam.

And discuss pressure with her generally.

In fact top sets at comps could be compared to a streaming, elitist grammar system

True. Which is why I'm happy that the secondary near our house doesn't stream. Or set.

In fact top sets at comps could be compared to a streaming, elitist grammar system

Hmm I don't think so.Grammar schools have a different feel, a different ethos.

It was 2006, autumn, so there was internet, but I personally did not automatically use it as extensively as I would today.

I was aware of the academia aspect. I feel that the local comprehensive offers a more rounded education, and I disagree with the grammar that anything less than A or A* is failure.

I am not anti selective schools or grammar schools. Academic results are important, but at the grammar it was to the exclusion of all else. That was what I found hard to get my head around. There were definitely children there who got through the 11+ having been tutored to within an inch of their lives. They were OK to begin with, but soon struggled and would possibly have been better of finding their own level in the higher sets of a good comprehensive etc.

I went to the local 'crap' school instead of the better one because all my friends were going there. I ended up (in no particular order) drifting away from my friends, falling in with a bad crowd for a while, suffered from bullying and shit teachers, getting stuck in the low-achieving Science class, failing my French A-Level because the teacher tried to help us cheat (we all failed). I really wish I'd gone to the 'good' school.

Not wanting to take the 11+ because she's afraid she'll fail is not a good enough reason. Waiting to go where her friends are going is not a good enough reason. Yes, you don't have to go a grammar school to do well in life, but not everyone is lucky or guaranteed to do well when swimming against a tide of shit, and having a school that doesn't battle with problem pupils, poor performance, etc etc will give her a much-needed leg up.

Hope you give this some serious thought, OP.

The OP has said that the local school is good.

There are many, many, many good non-selective schools in the state system - and considerably more than there were 10, 15 or 25 years ago.

If it's a super selective known to be pushy like the ones in Sutton or Kingston I might well just let her decide, but would strongly encourage her to do her best if you're in an all grammar or secondary modern area.

To be really honest, not doing things for fear of fsure means that regardless of her choice, she will need you to teach her resilience and self esteem. Why in earth is she doubting her abilities so much that she didn't want to even try?

I'm also wondering g if her problems aren't more related to lack of self confidence re social situation/making friends. The fear that you dont know how to make friends (anymore) was a big thing for a lot of children in Y6 last year. And that is linked with the fear of been alone at school.

YY to the fact she can leave the grammar school if it really doesn't suit her whereas she can leave secondary to go there (or not wo a hell of a lot of efforts).

Tbh one if my issue is that even if you say that to her but your ex is still going in about what a waste if opportunity, how do you think she is going to feel if she doesn't sit the exam? I suspect not better if not worse than if she does because she will then feel like a failure not to have at least tried (and succeeded as per her tutor's prediction).
Don't underestimate that side if things too.

"Yes, you don't have to go a grammar school to do well in life, but not everyone is lucky or guaranteed to do well when swimming against a tide of shit, and having a school that doesn't battle with problem pupils, poor performance, etc etc will give her a much-needed leg up."

Yeah- because "swimming against a tide of shit" describes a non grammar school experience perfectly. Jesus Christ there are some hideous opinions on this website.

Sit down and ask her what she wants to do, cut down on the hothousing, and just encourage her to take the exam as a bit of fun and see how she does. Reiterate time and time again, it does not matter how she does. She is still young, the last thing you want is to cause her undue stress and anxiety.

It's a common misconception that a top set in a comprehensive is just the same as a top set in a grammar. It's not.

In a comprehensive they have a very mixed ability intake, so their top set is just going to be the top 20% of that very mixed intake.

In a grammar they only have a high ability intake, roughly the top 20% of pupils. So their top set is roughly the top 5% of an already high ability intake.

Obviously a few of the very best pupils in a comprehensive top set could keep up with the pupils in a grammar top set. But the majority of the comprehensive top set couldn't. They would more accurately compare with pupils in the lower sets at a grammar, because at the grammar the entire school is essentially one, big top set.

As far as I am aware, most grammars only set for a few subjects. If any. So the top few are having to hob nob with the merely clever in most subjects in grammar schools just as they are in the top set of a comprehensive.