To ask if anyone else had a 'late' toilet trainer? DC1 may be refused nursery entry as he isn't dry.

[HackerFucker22]

DC1 is almost 3 and in my non expert opinion is nowhere near ready to toilet train. We've tried on and off for a few months now and not once have we had a wee where it is supposed to go (we're leaving potty's down and offering toilet ... I have a seat to go over loo and a step). We have big boy pants and we've even tried some bribery. So far so bad.

DC1 is due to start nursery immediately after his 3rd Birthday and the policy is that they only accept dry children I am not sure on the flexibility of this nor the 'legalities' but to say I am stressed is an understatement. I don't want to pass this onto DC though.

I have a meeting with teacher tomorrow and will ask but I'm scared DC1 is going to lose his nursery place. Is this a possibility?

I completely understand why they have the 'must be dry' policy but surely my child isn't the only child to not be dry? Surely they must have some kind of workaround as obviously you cannot force them to toilet train to a schedule?

There are no SN involved. DC just isn't getting this at all bless him. We're on our 3rd pair of pants of the day already.

Any words of wisdom or advice appreciated.

I think private nurseries can have thier own rules .. My son has sn and is 4, not yet toilet trained . I had no problems getting a. Insert place . Maybe look for another nursery . The last thing you want it for them
To make you and him feel
Uncomfortable if he has an accident .

My understanding is that if the nursery is part of EY funding they cannot stipulate that they have to be toilet trained. How long would he be there for?

My DS didn't get potty training until just after his third birthday so there is time yet. Although his preschool didn't care if he was dry or not so I didn't have that pressure.

I think in the meeting tomorrow you can just say that he is attempting but clearly not ready. Either they work with you or he doesn't go until he's ready as you don't want to force and end up prolonging the process due to unnecessary stress.

Can you look for a different preschool?

My little boy was trained just after 3. We had similar problems to you and pull ups worked for us. I know a lot of people don't like them but they did work.

How long is he going for per day? Mine went for 3 hours and he was just getting their in pull ups and they were okay with that. He was totally dry and out of pull ups pretty quickly after that because seeing the other children used the toilet he did the same.

I work in an Early Years setting, no child would be refused starting because of still being in nappies.

It's not a private nursery. It's attached to school. It's his free 15 hours a week.

He will be there 15 hours per week this year and then full time the following year.

There are no changing facilities etc and at the meetings I've already been to its been made very clear that children are expected to be dry. It's on all the literature too.

Staggered intake means he starts immediately after his upcoming birthday as opposed to the term after (which would be January! )

They can't refuse him. If I were you I'd give up and go back to nappies/pull ups and let him do it in his own time, it is far, far easier and elss stressful for you both and you are less likely to end up with issues from witholding etc.

Ds2 (who is dc3 so I had learned to relax by then!) was a couple of months over 3, did it in his own time and it was fine. No problems with nursery either.

Can you ask for him to start in January instead then?

I don't think they actually are able to refuse him, however would you want to leave your child there knowing it will be an issue?

Another preschool isn't an option I'm afraid.... This is close to home, attached to the school we want him to attend and childcare depends on him being there.

Sympathies OP. It's such a tricky situation because you just can't force a child to get it until they are ready IMO

Private or not they cannot legally refuse a child that is not potty trained

January start would be an option but I am due back to work in December so ideally wanted him settled.

It's a good nursery, a good school and other than this issue I'm very happy with everything. I am hoping the teacher will be able to offer a workaround / solution..I just don't want to lose place.

They have no legal ground, they have to accommodate him regardless of what lies they have printed on their literature. Just smile sweetly and tell them they need to sort themselves out by the time he starts. Their problem, not yours.

Maybe ask them to keep place open for a month while you give him more time?

If it's a free place then as long as he is registered they should still get the funding anyway? My DS is booked for four days a week but if he finds that too much at the beginning then his school are happy for him to do less

They legally cannot refuse him a place if he isn't dry. It's a breach of the Equality Act, even if he doesn't have additional needs. My DD wasn't reliably trained until year 1 due to CP though she was in mainstream school. They had to make provision for her. I've got some great resources saved somewhere, I'll try to find them for you.

As far as I know they can't refuse to take him because he isn't toilet trained.

However, stick him in pull-ups and tell them he's trying. Our DD wasn't ready to ditch nappies even in the day until 3 yrs 8mths, and then she ditched them for nights a week later. If he's not ready he's not ready, and there really isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

As long as he doesn't regularly have a poo during the time he'll be at nursery, and he doesn't wee so much the pull-ups would leak, then it's a non-issue. Why would the nursery staff care if he's got pull-ups on if they don't have to deal with them.

What are their policies for dealing with toiletting accidents? They must have one as even trained children can have the odd accident.

My DS was 3 and a half when he potty trained. He was is a stubborn little bugger so any attempts to persuade him before then were pointless. When he said "I want to wear pants"..well that was it - whipped his nappy off sharpish and 3 or 4 pairs of pants that day for minor (5p size) accidents, and that was it. Dry. Overnight too though I was too chicken to risk not nappies at night for eons

The Pre-school (attached to school) took him without a problem although still in nappies/pull ups. He was there 3 hours in the morning - they never swapped/changed a wet pull up but they did change his nappy if he pooed (happened once).

Also "expected to be dry" means expected - ie they hope, please don't expect us to drive potty training. It does not say "not allowed if not dry".

Take him, say he is not ready for potty training although you have tried and leave a spare nappy, wipes and bag.

They have the facilites to help any "dry" children who have had an accident. Ergo they can deal with your DS.

My smallest is four in the new year. He's not even remotely ready to train, he hasn't a clue. It's a pain for all of us, but I didn't even give nursery the choice to say they don't accept 'untrained' children. I just told them he is still in nappies and that he'd have supplies with him in a bag on his peg. I went through the same with the school my middle child attended too. Why is it so hard for foundation units to accept that not all three year old children have bladder control?

Here you go OP.

These guides are both handy and I recommend printing the one for the school, and giving it to them.

www.eric.org.uk/InformationZone/TheRightToGo

I also recommend printing this information aimed at schools which clearly states that they must not refuse entry to children who have not yet achieved continence:

www.eric.org.uk/Schools/Toilet_Training

Can someone else find the law on this? I have found this government document which states:

Schools are not expected to toilet train pupils. Therefore unless a child as a disability, as defined through legislation, it is expected that parents/carers will have trained their child to be clean and dry before the start in FS1.

However, admitting children who are not yet toilet trained or who have continence problems
into schools and settings should be the decision of the appropriate head teacher.

This appears to say they can refuse unless a disability exists.

I don't think school can refuse a child on the grounds of continence, the same as they couldn't for any other reason (disability etc). And even if they say they haven't got changing facilities, toilet trained children have accidents and they must change them and not leave them sitting in wet clothes! My dd was out of nappies when she started nursery (joined to a school) but wasn't reliable until Y3, as she had bladder problems without any SN so although they 'expect' them to be dry, they can't insist on it or some children wouldn't be starting school for ages!

To be fair though it depends on staffing numbers at the school. At my daughters pre school it was 3 teachers to 30 kids. So one child that may be in nappies needed two teachers to change as they aren't allowed to by themselves due to child protection. So that leaves one with 29. Which buggers up ratios.

Give him chance theres time. I personally have never agreed with sending children to nursery or reception not toilet trained. but thats a personal opinion which i am sure someone will come and pick holes in.

Dd lost her nursery space due to this at age 2.5y, this was 12 years ago.

The nursery had to move premesis just before she started amd said the new venue didn't have anywhere that could be used as changing facilities.