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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask if anyone else had a 'late' toilet trainer? DC1 may be refused nursery entry as he isn't dry.

157 replies

HackerFucker22 · 31/08/2015 11:59

DC1 is almost 3 and in my non expert opinion is nowhere near ready to toilet train. We've tried on and off for a few months now and not once have we had a wee where it is supposed to go (we're leaving potty's down and offering toilet ... I have a seat to go over loo and a step). We have big boy pants and we've even tried some bribery. So far so bad.

DC1 is due to start nursery immediately after his 3rd Birthday and the policy is that they only accept dry children I am not sure on the flexibility of this nor the 'legalities' but to say I am stressed is an understatement. I don't want to pass this onto DC though.

I have a meeting with teacher tomorrow and will ask but I'm scared DC1 is going to lose his nursery place. Is this a possibility?

I completely understand why they have the 'must be dry' policy but surely my child isn't the only child to not be dry? Surely they must have some kind of workaround as obviously you cannot force them to toilet train to a schedule?

There are no SN involved. DC just isn't getting this at all bless him. We're on our 3rd pair of pants of the day already.

Any words of wisdom or advice appreciated.

OP posts:

cocobean2805 · 31/08/2015 13:43

We were not allowed to change children. If they were capable of changing pants they did, under supervision of staff. if they pooed, parents were phoned to come and collect. We didn't have facilities to sluice down children nor were we expected to. We would never insist that they came in to change children, two staff would usually supervise a wet pants episode, We'd ring to notify. I would never have left a child in wet clothes because their parents couldn't come in, but we were not allowed to clean up the child, so if there was a poo episode, they would need to be collected. They could be brought back unless it was a diarrhea episode.

Original poster

HackerFucker22 · 31/08/2015 13:44

Also DC is very vocal, has a good vocabulary so it's not a communication issue.

He knows what the potty / toilet is for, he knows he needs to use toilet before he can go to school (he tells me this everytime we pass school), he tells me as soon as he has been but it's just re connection between needing to go and telling us that isn't happening.

OP posts:

honkinghaddock · 31/08/2015 13:45

They should not be calling parents in for poos. They are breaking the law.

Original poster

HackerFucker22 · 31/08/2015 13:47

Sorry can someone clarify the whole 'child being collected if they poo' issue. Could parents not go in and change child?

OP posts:

5madthings · 31/08/2015 13:51

hacker If he is telling you as soon as he has been ie just after a wee? Then it sounds like his awareness is growing so it may not be long til he is ready. Please don't tell him he can't go to nursery/school unless he can use the toilet,that's far too much pressure on him.

I agree with giving it a break. With any luck in a few weeks he will be ready, it would be good if it coincided with a warm weekend so he can be bare bummed in garden with s potty nearby. I did that with all my boys and it was easy.

Good luck op, let us know how tye chat with the nursery goes.

cece · 31/08/2015 13:51

I don't think they are allowed to refuse them. Hold on I will see if I can find some info.

honkinghaddock · 31/08/2015 13:52

No school or nursery should be asking a parent to come in to change a child. They should only be asking for a child to be collected if d +v is suspected.

cece · 31/08/2015 13:54

HTH

tobysmum77 · 31/08/2015 13:54

OP I'd try private nurseries instead if I were you. As for parents expecting nurseries to potty train er yeah it's part of caring for very young children. They kind of expect that this is the case also. In any case my 3.7 year old pretty much has an accident every day at nursery, bit odd because she's fine at home.

TheFairyCaravan · 31/08/2015 13:54

They can't refuse him, or any child that's not dry. It annoys me that there are pre-schools that are still telling parents this, it's not allowed by law and they know it.

When I worked in a pre-school, 9-13 years ago, we had children in pull-ups and nappies. We changed them when needed, we wouldn't have called the parents/carers unless the child was ill.

I very much doubt he'll be the only one not dry Hacker.

BabyGanoush · 31/08/2015 13:57

Yes, kids are in nappies for much longer these days

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 31/08/2015 13:58

If you're not allowed to clean up a child that's because your setting has written their intimate care so badly that that is the case. There is nothing in law preventing staff from cleaning a child. In fact best practice suggests that staff should clean children or help them to clean themselves as leaving a soiled child until a parent can pick them up could be considered neglect.

Original poster

HackerFucker22 · 31/08/2015 13:58

Thanks cece and Welsh (she posted link as well)

Just incase you couldn't tell this is PFB and he has never been with anyone other than me, dad or granny so I'm quite angst filled in general about him starting nursery.

I don't tell him he can't go to school but I do tell him that when he goes to big boy school he will need to use toilet like all the other boys and girls. I've never made it a condition of him going though.

OP posts:

NotMyMonkey · 31/08/2015 14:00

It sounds like you are putting way too much pressure on both of you tbh. Please don't tell him he won't be able to go to school, you are only going to cause him stress. Leave it for now and revisit in a few weeks.

cocobean2805 · 31/08/2015 14:02

If there was a ' loose' poo, and the child hadn't been complaining of a poorly tummy, then parents would be asked to come in, clean up and change child in situ. If there was a poonami, then the parent would be expected to take the child home. You can't exclude a child for not being completely toilet trained, accidents happen. But the child's best interest are paramount, and health and safety made things difficult as we weren't allowed to physically clean up and change a child, i would hate to have had a little one uncomfortable and end up sore because we couldn't clean them up properly after an accident. So ringing mum/carer/guardian to help them and give them a once over with a wet wipe was often better than the other option of supervised change and a child becoming ill, we would ring the parent to notify as a par for the course.

Original poster

HackerFucker22 · 31/08/2015 14:02

I did mention up thread that an alternative nursery isn't possible (mainly to do with childcare but I don't want to completely out myself) but it's our local nursery and attached to school we hope DC will attend.

Even if I did want to change its far too late now?

OP posts:

puddymuddles · 31/08/2015 14:03

DD1 was trained just after her 4th birthday. No sn just a stubborn child! Not suggesting your DS stubborn btw just that this is what my DD like. No probs at nursery though they were talking about seeing GP just before she decided to get trained! DD2 basically trained herself at 2 years and 2 months. I wouldn't worry unless he still isn't trained as school start approaches. ignore what others say every child is different.

Look for another nursery I suggest.

123Jump · 31/08/2015 14:03

Crikey, I have never even questioned this. I have successfully potty trained 2 DC at just before 3yo. One did Playschool, one didn't. Their school has a Kindergarden where they both went, and I was called one day as DC had had a "accident". He had a malt easer sized poop in his pants. I had to take him home, which I did without question.
DC3 isn't potty trained at over 3yo. He has not a tiny bit of interest in potty training. He is due to start Playschool now, but they won't take them if they are not potty trained, apparently. So I have to defer for a month and see then. Not sure what happens if he still isn't then.

mabythesea · 31/08/2015 14:07

cocobean - you wouldn't clean up children, that's not the same as couldn't.

Personally I think it's ridiculous that any setting caring for children under about the age of 6 would have a policy of not cleaning a child up after a toilet accident. It certainly isn't good early years practice!

KittyLovesPaintingOhYes · 31/08/2015 14:12

I had a late trainer (another August baby) who started nursery in nappies, despite all my efforts. We stopped and started potty training three times until he finally got it at the Christmas break.

To those inclined to criticism, my Dd trained at 2, practically on her own, some children just find it harder and it is not a reflection on your parenting skills.

It was quite a problem as he would not let the school change him (they said...) and I was going in daily to do this. We finally achieved 'potty' but he still wouldn't use the toilets in school and would frequently hang on until he got home, with limited success. He can't have been unique as every day some child or other would come out with their pants in a bag at pick-up.
Things did get better, slowly, but he developed all sorts of issues around toiletting at school that dragged on. I wonder if he suffered from name-calling etc from the other children - he didn't seem to have many friends, it was a large early-years group with open-access toilets.

Fortunately we moved area when he was half-way through reception and he has had no problems at the new school and is the life and soul of the place. I don't know what would have happened if we hadn't moved, but in hindsight if I could have deferred him starting I think I would have.

cece · 31/08/2015 14:13

FWIW my child who is about to start Year 2 still soils himself daily. The school cleans him up if it happens at school but he usually saves it for me! He does have SN though and sees a paed about his other behaviour issues. Hence my expertise on the subject

I am currently researching administering his new medicine during school hours. And have to phone the school on their INSET day later this week to sort it out in time for his first day back.

Piratejones · 31/08/2015 14:14

Mini pirate was almost 5 before he even entertained the idea of weeing in the toilet / potty, 6 when he did his first poo and 7 before he was reliable outside.

He has Additional needs of course, but that didn't stop the school claiming they couldn't take him.

LibrariesGaveUsP0wer · 31/08/2015 14:16

Can I ask how long you have stuck with one approach and what you have tried OP?

Apologies if this is irrelevant to you, but I have seen a number of threads where people have talked about trying on and off for months and with lots of methods where it has turned out their expectations of speed of progress were unrealistic. And as a result there had been lots of one or two day attempts with various methods resulting in confusion and mixed messages. I don't say that to be arsey, just on the off chance it helps.

cocobean2805 · 31/08/2015 14:18

mabytheresa I was prepared to clean up children. I was told by my line manager and the ht that we were not allowed to touch/clean up a child after an accident. I also thought it was ridiculous that we couldn't change children. I was told it was safeguarding and h+s. We required two members of staff to supervise wet changing with no physical contact. Meaning 38 children would be left with one member of staff. I don't agree with the policy we had, I explained our policy as was for the OP in order to maybe offer an opinion from my experience.

Nanny0gg · 31/08/2015 14:19

DGD 1 wasn't verbal or potty trained at three. (no SEN).

When she was ready, just a month or so later, she caught on in a week.

And when she was ready to speak, she talked (and talked, and talked...)

You can't force the issue and they can't refuse you the place.

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