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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

is BIL hurtful and DH is allowing it

216 replies

bellheart · 27/08/2015 21:41

Namechanged for this

Sorry there is a lot of background to this one but I will try and keep it short.
My DH has 2 older brothers, BIL1 is the oldest he has a son and they both live with us. His wife (mother to his son) died 6 years ago.
BIL2 is the middle brother. He had a daughter with an ex girlfriend, the ex left him and the daughter for another man and then she passed away. BIL2 struggled with this and turned to drink and drugs. So DH adopted the daughter just before we met and he has raised her as his own. We both now refer to her as our DD and she calls us mum and dad but she does know that we aren't really her parents.

Now BIL2 has been clean for a couple of years. He comes and visits us every weekend. He doesn't do anything with his daughter alone as he doesn't want to. He mostly comes to play video games either With his brothers or by himself. DD refers to him as uncle first name but she does know that he is her father.

So to the point. I am just over 8 months pregnant. We have been trying for years and had to suffer a couple of miscarriages so this baby feels like a dream come true. However it has been far from easy plus I lost my job 3 months ago.

BIL2 keeps making stupid comments since I became pregnant it started off sounding more like jokes at first but since then he has become more and more offensive.
He says things like, God your looking fat today did you shallow a whale oh no wait just a monster. He also says that I planned to lose my job so DH would have to support us and calling me lazy and if I am eating he laughs and says oh God eating for two AGAIN.
This upsets me and I have brought it up with DH but he shrugs it off and says it's just BIL2 joking and I shouldn't take it to heart. When I mention it to BIL 2 he just says it's my hormones.

So it all came to a head for me tonight. We were having dinner and BIL2 came round to borrow something. I asked of anyone wanted a dessert and BIL2 said haha surprised you haven't eaten them all. I ignored him and carried on. DH started clearing the table and he asked why I wasn't doing it. I said it was DHs turn and he said oh I thought it was the baby making you lazy again. I laughed it off and we carried on.

Then we were all sitting watching tv and I was sitting on a cushion and I had a hot water bottle because my back hurts and it makes the pain slightly better which BIL2 knows because DH explained it too him a while ago. He looked at me and said God your so lazy you can't even sit by yourself. I told him to stop it now as we were trying to listen to the tv and wind down for the night.

I went into the kitchen with BIL1 to sort some financial stuff out and BIL2 followed us and said oh are you getting another snack. I said no we were sorting some bills out.
He said well you know if you keep lazing around all the time you will probably make the baby fat and that could kill it.
I lost it and called him a dick. He got really defensive saying that I was being a hormonal cow bag and he thinks I am using his brother.

BIL 2 then stormed out so DH came to see what happened. I explained to him and he didn't say anything to me he just ran out after BIL 2.
I was upset and BIL 1 was really nice and sorted the kids and made sure I was okay.

DH eventually came home and he said that he was upset with me for upsetting his brother as I might push him over the edge. I said I was really upset by his brothers behaviour and his comments were really horrible and untrue. DH seems to think that because it's untrue I should take it as a joke. I said I didn't find it funny and DH said it was probably just my hormones.

I have gone downstairs to sleep on the sofa because I am really upset with both of them.

So am I being unreasonable and should I just take it as a joke, or are they being unreasonable.

OP posts:
queenofthishouse · 28/08/2015 19:28

maddy there is no middle. Op has done nothing wrong, she has been a mother to BIL child and he is treating her like this. Being in the middle implies there are two sides - there isn't, it's just Bil being a bullying prick. Yep it's hormonsl to get upset when some one is making 'jokes' about you killing your baby. Hmm your homone excuse is really patronising and misogonistic maddy - just like when a bloke days to a woman he has upset ' what up ?you on your period ?'

Aeroflotgirl · 28/08/2015 19:35

I am not pregnant, I would have been highly insulted by all of those comments, they were nasty and abusive, and noway banter or jokey. What would have hurt me more, is my husbands reaction or lack of. The fact that it has taken BIL as a go between, for h to talk to op, is concerning. He is still unapologetic towards his wife, who has been at the receiving end of BIL vitriol is quite disgusting. Stop making excuses, op h is a grown man, who has responsibilities. If that was somebodies partner on here making those comments, it would be up in arms.

Aeroflotgirl · 28/08/2015 19:38

Op your h should be behaving like BIL1, why is he not! Why is it BIL1 defending you, and your h is not, is unacceptable, I would be quite firm and candid with your h, you need to to tell him in no uncertain terms that he has to have your back.

HelenaDove · 28/08/2015 19:47

BIL1 is being very supportive. Now if a situation like this is allowed to continue resentment can build in the OP And you end up becoming very close to the person who supports you rather than the one who dismisses your feelings.

25 years ago as a teen i was dating (but not sleeping with) a boy i was at college with. He would be very dismissive of my feelings and he came out with the hormonal/period excuses if i raised any issues too. He did this when i was at his for dinner. His dad gave him a huge lecture saying he had a lot to learn and that he had no idea how to treat women with respect. I ended the relationship but just over a year later i had a 3 month fling with his single father. This was after we kept bumping into each other while out and about.

OP im NOT saying you are going to do this but when we are caught between ppl who are treating us badly and one supportive person things can happen.

NadiaWadia · 28/08/2015 20:18

maddy I really think you have misread the situation.

He probably didn't mean anything by it. Oh, I think he did. It's not just the 'fat jokes' (which are crass in themselves) but a constant attack on the poor OP. Calling her lazy. Saying she is 'using' his DB. This is abuse. To someone who is bringing up his DD (who he can't be bothered with, poor child). And her DH is just allowing this to happen, where probably the said DD can see and hear it all. Just vile.

A bit of forgiveness might not go astray. No. You can only 'forgive' someone when

  1. they ask for forgiveness - he hasn't
  2. they at least acknowledge what they have done is wrong - he doesn't
Instead of which, when she called him on it he called her 'a hormonal cowbag' - nice. And stomped off because his precious feelings were hurt by being called out on his behaviour. Diddums.

God knows what he hopes to achieve by this behaviour, but it is not helping anyone. I have an ex-addict relative who can be a bit like this (though certainly not as bad as the OP's BIL2). They can be totally self-absorbed, they are always the victim, and everything is always someone else's fault. I don't know whether it is that the drugs have altered their brain chemistry, maybe, sending their thinking skewed? But certainly they can be very unpleasant to be around, even though you feel sorry for them.

Is the house jointly owned by the three brothers, I wonder? Any chance of buying out BIL2 and making him know he's not welcome? Unless he is made to change his ways, I worry that the OP is going to have a very bad time over the next months and years. He needs someone to stand up to him, and at the moment nobody is doing that.

petalsandstars · 28/08/2015 20:52

Hopefully he has seen sense this evening - he (DH) must know inside that he is in the wrong by not challenging BIL2 as evidenced by being unable to articulate his reasons to BIL1. I hope he has managed to admit it now.

I would not want BIL2 in the house again unless he apologised and didn't behave in that disrespectful manner again

AyeAmarok · 28/08/2015 20:52

BIL2 is a cunt of the highest order.

Your DH needs to grow a backbone and get his priorities sorted out.

BIL1...

wafflyversatile · 28/08/2015 21:16

I think some people on this thread have been incredibly harsh on your DH. He's done a lot of caring for his family and taken on a lot of responsibility under tragic and difficult circumstances. There are obviously a lot of complex dynamics and feelings going on here. But on this one issue he has a bit of an understandable weak/blind spot, a situation he doesn't know how to deal with for the best, and he's condemned by some.

Good post from grape I agree that (I think it was grape said it) that he sees his DB as more vulnerable in some way and the you as stronger and mistakenly thinks you should be able to dismiss these comments. This obviously isn't the case (fair enough) and now he realises this I hope his approach will change.

BIL2 has behaved horribly of course and shouldn't be allowed to continue.
I hope talks between BIL1 your DH and you lead to a constructive resolution. Even if your DH is wary of pulling BIL2 up it doesn't mean you can't speak up when BIL2 behaves badly to you. BIL1 is also allowed to voice his disapproval too. I suppose DH is worried BIL2 will turn back to drink and drugs. An understandable fear but that doesn't make allowing/excusing bad behaviour ok.

Who knows what is going on in BIL2's head when he is so horrible to you. I think someone said projecting and it does sound like he's accusing you of things he could be considered guilty of. That's not your problem, well not directly. And he's not going to sort himself out if no one ever challenges him so he does need to be challenged. At the end of the day whatever he chooses to do with his life or how he chooses to conduct himself he needs to know that certain behaviour will not be tolerated in your company/home.

I hope it works out for you, Flowers

grapejuicerocks · 28/08/2015 21:23

i agree completely waffly You have said in one post what I've been trying to say in several.

Aeroflotgirl · 28/08/2015 21:26

Quite rightly so, the way op h has treated his pregnant wife has been shoddy, whatever is going on in his head. I hope he realises tonight, what a disrespectful prick he has been.

Aeroflotgirl · 28/08/2015 21:27

I think it may be better in the long run to find your own place, be it, to rent or buy, as this will cause problems in the op marriage.

steff13 · 28/08/2015 21:40

So DH woke me up before he left for work and asked me not to be angry at him. I said I couldn't help it and he had really upset me last night. He said oh okay and went to work.

This really bothers me. Firstly, he had the opportunity to sleep on this, and still doesn't seem to see that he was wrong, or that the OP should be angry with him, and second, he doesn't seem to be super concerned that she's upset. I hope I'm reading that wrong.

Chelsielouise · 28/08/2015 21:42

Hey op,
sorry he made you feel so shitty.
I don't condone his behaviour at all or your OH not sticking up for you. I'm just relating your situation to my own in the hope of shedding a bit of light on their behaviour( if its relevant). My family member is an alcoholic, not as bad as he was but he slips .He was very violent and verbally abusive and after seeing how he acts when in a confrontational situation I would be wary to argue with him maybe your oh feels the same from past experience. is brother should not be allowed to say the awful things he says to you though. xxx

bellheart · 28/08/2015 22:30

So DH came home and we sat and talked.
He asked me how I was and I told him honestly I was still a little hurt as I felt that he chose BIL 2 over me when what BIL 2 said was offensive not just to me but to his unborn child.
DH said that he was sorry and he went after BIL because he was worried about what he might do. He said that last night when he followed BIL they went to his place and BIL was a bit stroppy at first but they played a video game and then BIL was fine and kept saying that we were all just having a laugh and I took it too far. DH asked him to stop making jokes about me and BIL said fine and then they just played games

I said that while I was glad he asked him to stop I was still upset that he hasn't stuck up for me by telling BIL that what he said was inappropriate.
I then told how much it upset me to repeatedly be called fat and lazy and being told that I might kill our baby after all the trouble we have had to get to this point was really hurtful. I started to cry at this point and DH kept saying how sorry he was and he hadn't thought of how it would hurt me he was just so caught up in not hurting BIL.

I said that I needed him to start thinking about me more because I was about to have his baby and I needed to know that I could trust him to be on our side because having a baby is big and scary and I had to know that I could trust him.

He said he was really sorry and I could trust him and he said that he will talk to BIL 2 tomorrow morning properly and he will ask him to apologise and he will explain that in the future he will not tolerate that sort of behaviour towards me.

I said I was glad that he realised all of this and explained that I did realise that this was hard for him and I don't mind him supporting his brothers at all just not when it is at my expense and he said he was sorry that he had allowed his brother to come between us and he promised he would try much harder.

He has gone to fetch take away for dinner now so we shall see where it goes from there and see how he gets on talking to BIL tomorrow.

OP posts:
SeraOfeliaFalfurrias · 28/08/2015 22:34

That sounds very positive, OP, and I'm glad. I hope he took on board the bit where you're not prepared for his support of his brother to come at your expense, because that's really it in a nutshell isn't it?

Time will tell whether he can put his money where his mouth is, and I guess he may not get it right first time or every time. But I wish you all good luck.

HelenaDove · 28/08/2015 22:43

What Sera said Good luck OP Thanks

emotionsecho · 28/08/2015 22:50

Perfect wording re not supporting his brother at your expense OP, I do stlll think your dh needs help with his feelings of responsibility towards his brother, it is clouding his judgement. He cannot allow his brother to get away with things for fear his brother may do something, his brother is an adult and his choices are his own responsibility I suspect this brother knows your dh's fears and is deliberately playing on them.

I also wish you both well.

maddy68 · 28/08/2015 22:55

Glad it's sorted Your husband is stuck in the middle. I have a drug addict brother and they are vulnerable I know how he feels. He feels he needs to protect him and he thinks you can handle yourself.

This has been a bit of a wake up cal to your dh. He hasn't chosen him over you, he cares about you both. Now you have made your feelings clear he is acting on them. Good luck with everything

Aeroflotgirl · 28/08/2015 22:57

Fantastic op, well done for telling him how it is, I am glad he was very understanding.

Clutterbugsmum · 28/08/2015 23:11

Well done op for telling your DH how you feel.

But he needs to stop asking BIL 2 to stop saying mean jokes about you and TELL HIM to stop and to apologise to you and if he won't then BIL2 doesn't come around for a while until he can behave.

And as for your DH worrying about what he may do BIL2 is an adult and his choices are his and it will not be yours, your Dh or BIL1 fault.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 28/08/2015 23:17

I hope that conversation was a positive step forwards.

I am rather world weary and would be careful not to fall into a dynamic where DH runs from one to another placating and being torn yet trying to be 'fair'. As that kind of behaviour doesn't deal with the issue and sets up an either/ or type of mentality, and the fairer person never wins as they get dragged into having to be understanding at the expense of their own needs, and the person behaving worse somehow gets a 'get out of jail free' card. Ring a bell so far?

I say this as I've seen it before, not because I know it will happen. More of a forewarned is forearmed kind of thing.

It's not fair that DH has slipped into being the parent for his brother, and longer term it would be healhier for him to develop a more equal type of relationship, but quite frankly, that's a massive journey which only your dh can decide to go on, and is fighting entrenched dynamics fuelled by guilt and fear and love.

I'd suggest steering well clear of that particular area, and concentrate on getting DH to see how his reactions are not actually helping his brother even though it comes from a place of love and caring...

I would concentrate on getting DH to see that his behaviour is NOT protecting or helping his brother, and as he's taken on the role of protector and nurturer, he might as well do it properly!

By showing his brother that the normal rules don't apply to him, and that he's not expected to behave in the same way any grown person does (or any growing person whatever their age, actually!) ... all that's incredibly damaging for the brother.

Does dh want to show his brother that he's not good enough to be treated as a normal person? Or that dh believes that his brother isn't capable of reaching even the bare minimum of nornal behaviour and interactions? As that is the message he's actually giving his brother, whether he means to or not, and how is that in any way a positive, nurturing thing to do??? It's limiting, and keeps the brother in a vulnerable, child like position, with more reasons to continue being a stunted immature and manipulative whiner who gets to be the centre of attention for all the wrong reasons.

How would dh behave to a child behaving badly to get what he wants? Trying to push someone else out of the family as he's jealous and insecure? Like the classic brother osje alpha of new baby/ family member? In that scenario, would your dh see his role as helping the jealous child to come to terms with his emotions, show him how to channel them into more positive behaviour, show him that he is still loved and valued, in conjunction with setting firm boundaries and rules, praise for good behaviour and refuse to 'feed' bad behaviour?

Or would he encourage the bad behaviour and collude in pushing that other sibling/ family member out? Would he reward bad behaviour by lavishing love and praise on the child each time they acted out? Would he let the child believe the other family member wasn't as important as himself? And that he has the god given right to come first in everything, and that it's fine to treat the other family meet like a second class citizen? Would he make excuses and tell everyone to tiptoe around them and pretend not to see when the jealous child hits the other child, or pushes them over, breaks their toys, or shouts rude words and he really starts a campaign of bullying and nasty behaviour designed to keep himself hogging all the attention, time, effort and deliberating trying to deny the same to the other child, who's none nothing wrong except existing?

Because one is being a responsible adult teaching and helping a child develop his potential, instill a sense of right & wrong, help build a positive self worth and good mental health, and help the child grow and mature and develop into a great person. Or of course, he could be the type of person who just let the kid have what he wants (rather than what he needs), call the shots, and panders to destructive behaviours and generally helps create a monster?!

I know what I'd do if my 5 yr old was behaving that way - and it seems already I expect more of my little boy than he does from his grown brother! And if he's the one taking on the 'parental role', then he should take responsibility for the consequences of his dysfunctional 'parenting' / the lessons his brother learns from how dh responds.

By the way, it's obviously not ideal that your dh has taken on the mantle of parent to his brother, but that's a harder nut to crack and you can at least start from that reality and get him being more effective in that role than the dysfunctional stuff he's locked into now albeit with the best of motives.

fabuLou · 28/08/2015 23:21

Leave the bastards half joking op your bil is a dick as is your h. Bil 1 sounds nice.

queenofthishouse · 28/08/2015 23:37

That's sounds positive but the proof is in the pudding. This is actually the tricky bit - everyone keeping up their end of the bargain.

Good luck op Flowers

HelenaDove · 28/08/2015 23:40

There is also the resentment from DC which could happen later on.

He tells DC off for being naughty or saying something they shouldnt.

"But Dad You let Uncle *** get away with it"

Atenco · 29/08/2015 06:02

Your dh does sound nice and that conversation was positive, OP. But I think what MiscellaneousAssortment has said is very important for the long term.

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