To let DS invite whole class bar 3 children

[PhoebeMcPeePee]

We've agreed that DS can have a disco for his 10th birthday and he wants the whole class except for 3 children . Tbh I don't blame him for wanting to exclude them as they are a total PITA and have made his (& many of his friends) lives a misery for the past 5 years of school BUT it just doesn't feel right excluding such a small number. If he were much younger I would say no, they either all come or we have the usual small number but is it fair to veto the entire idea just because of their behaviour. WWYD?

I am amazed at how many adults want to gleefully dole out rough justice to ten year olds. Posters don't just justify hurting the childrens' feelings, but delight in them "learning their lesson."

All of you who think, "What goes around comes around," should carry that thought through a little further.

The OP has never referred to the children as "bullies," only other posters have.

Someone who makes someone elses life a misery through their behaviour sounds like a bully to me.

Whattodo what else do you call kids that make other chikdrendo lives a misery then . yes at 10 they should have a very good idea at cause and effect, they are 8 years from being adults, not very long in the grand scheme of things, thus behaviour has been going on for 5 years, if something is not done, they will carry on as adults because of people like what todo behaving softly and giving them the green light. You would feel differently I am sure, if those 3 were being nasty to your dc!

If OP didn't think it was a mean action she wouldn't have asked the question!

Unfair misinterpretation of the OP, which says is it fair to not invite the gang of three or should she veto "the whole idea" (ie the disco party) because of their behaviour.

The smaller party (excluding non-bullies) is not an option because her DS wants a disco party. So either it is not inviting the bullies or her son doesn't get the party he wants.

If anything is mean it is suggesting penalising DS and his friends for being in the same class as these kids by either cancelling the disco party because it needs a large number of guests or inviting the bullies.

I'm not sure which simpler era Mehitable refers to where there were no whole class parties. It certainly wasn't the sixties. Or the seventies. Or the eighties or nineties.

It is very unfair to criticise the OP for wanting to have a large party for her DS without having to subject him to the presence of three bullies who have made his life a misery for five years.

She wouldn't have asked if she was sure it was the right thing to do. She asked because she had doubts. Apparently we are not allowed to say it is unfair.
Maybe you come from an area where people could afford whole class parties, CardinalRed.
There are other solutions.

You would be very unreasonable to invite them.

Your son will tell them they were only invited because you made him.
Then they'll be torn about whether to go, knowing that they aren't truly wanted even though a party sounds fun and their parents may encourage them to go.

That's what happened to my son, a PITA child the other parents disliked (also a 10th birthday disco party). My son finally bottled out & explained the full situation when we were walking up to the party (so obviously we came home & didn't bother, though I had to text some kind of apology to parent, that was a hard text to word).

Much better to have known he simply wasn't invited (even if most others were), and then easier for him to forget about the party & us parents would never have been involved.

I shall hide the thread, now but Iwouldn't bring up my children to think that you can't bully 'nice' children but you can bully 'horrid' children. Exclusion is bullying.
There are other solutions.

No. We are assuming that IF the problem is bullying, then it is shitty to punish the victim of the bullying by ruining their party. I thought mumsnet was against victim blaming?

If it was just one child the DS didnt want to invite, then I'd say suck it up, but leaving out 3 is a bit more acceptable, it's no longer "A whole class party but leaving out one child" - it's not a whole class party. And not all will be able to go.

There does seem to be an assumption on here that the 3 children who are horrible to the OP's DS and others would want to go to the party of a child they don't like enough to be nice to.

In adult life you don't have to invite people who treat you like shit to your private party event - comparing it to work parties is nonsense, that would be comparable to discos arranged by the PTA. It is like saying that if one of my colleagues was inviting another colleague over for a BBQ they are duty bound to invite the whole team.

"Must be my age but when did whole class invites come in ?"

Never heard of them either, only on here!

I was born in the 60s, never had one or knew anyone who did.

Maybe we were just all too poor!

My kids, now teens have never had one either.

Fortunately, they don't seem to be the done thing here in the small town in Germany that we live in!

No it's not mehetible considering the circumstances. Pthat is an insult to us who were genuinely bullied for doing absolutely nothing.

A whole class party is not a problem that requires a solution. It is a choice.
OP asked because the choice is no party or not invite bullies. Not have a smaller party because then it won't work.

So, given that choice, what would you do? That was what she asked.

Option 1 no party. Very unfair to birthday boy.
Option 2 no bullies. Differing views
Option 3 smaller party. Not workable but very unfair on birthday boy and the children he wants to be there. But might mean bullies don't have their feelings hurt.

I know which I would find more unfair if it was my child's party.
With your ideas her poor DS suffers either way.

Nobody has sais you cannot say anything you wish. They have pointed out how in an attempt to make the bullies feel okay you are being very unfair to everyone else and sending some very bad messages.

Of course my children have been teased sometimes. They have been picked on. They have had falling outs with friends. They have been left out. They have even been physically shoved/pinched once or twice on the play ground.

My knee jerk reaction was not to charge up to school all guns blazing. I talk it through with my kids. We look for what they have the power to change and control. I remember that they are all just kids, and my children are most likely not perfect angels either. I don't encourage everyone digging in and getting their backs up.

Instead, I try to guide them through the confusing world of getting along with other people as best they can. Thinking through how their actions affect others and how others might respond to them; how to preserve some dignity and autonomy without becoming a bully oneself. Best to show some forgiveness and forebearance because you might need some yourself someday. Why make unnecessary enemies and lose friends when it is avoidable.

My main concern is the adults they grow up to be. I want them to be gracious and socially confident. Not the kind of people who stoke petty disputes and irritate other people. I am thinking about their long term best interests.

It is perfectly possible, though not probable, that there are three nasty sociopaths in the OP's child's class. More likely, given what the op has actually said, that there is a personality clash.

Mehitabel - do you socialise with people who treat you like shit?

I'm of the opinion there's a time and place for teaching children that children who behave badly might do so because of underlining problems, but cancelling the DS's planned party to avoid possibly upsetting children* who have deliberately upset the DS doesn't seem the right way to go about it.

*We don't know they will be upset by being left out, it's all 3 of them, not them finding out that all their friends are going to a party and they aren't. We rather assume they'd want to go to the party of a child they don't like.

Well, the OP lobs this one into the fray and disappears while the bunfight begins. Doesn't really make sense to froth over this until the OP can be arsed to come back and clarify the situation a bit.

Afternoon
We're not sure that any child should be referred to like this - a bit of peace and love, non?

No don't invite horrible children/ ones he doesn't like

It's his birthday !!

Who cares while class int there. He sees them all day 5 days a week, that's enough

Well, the OP lobs this one into the fray and disappears while the bunfight begins. Doesn't really make sense to froth over this until the OP can be arsed to come back and clarify the situation a bit. hmm

Exactly!

Whattodo, this is not about a falling out, or an argument, please don't minimise bullying, they have made op ds life a misery for 5 years, which is a long time. Time to teach ds that he does not have to put up with this, he does not have to have them at his special day ruining things for him, and making him anxious and upset. They are 10 fgs, not a bunch of 5/6 year olds, should fecking know how to behave. As an adult I would not have people that bullied me at my party, why do children have to just suck it up. Valuable life lesson for those making op and his friends life a misery. Gosh there really is so wooo people on here today. No I have never had class parties, can't afford them, but would exclude kids that were nasty to my dc.

I haven't minimised bullying. Labelling things "bullying" willy-nilly minimises bullying.

I need the OP to clarify a bit further. It could be bullying. Or not.

I think it would be hard to minimise the effects of three kids making at least one other child's life a misery for five years.
Or to describe that habitual behaviour as anything other than bullying.

It is the refusal to accept that some children do bully others that minimises the effects of their actions and goes some way to normalising them and making them acceptable.

If OP returns and says her DS is bullied because he has ASD or wears glasses or has epilepsy and this is the target for their actions, would that change the opinions?

Whattodo, I would hardly call 5 years of making somebodies life a misery not bullying. It must have been bad for op ds not to want to invite those 3. The behaviour was not just limited to op ds, but other children too.

Even if it's not "proper bullying", the fact is the OP's DS doesn't like these 3 children and they don't like him. They have not been nice to him, even if we don't think they've been "bad enough" for the school to have had to step in and fix this. Even then, it's worth learning that you don't have to have people in your life you don't like and don't treat you well. You don't have to put up with people until they do something really bad.

It's not just one child being left out, it's a whole group. Others shouldn't have to be left out as well to just prove the point that it's not just this group.

If this group do get upset about being left out of a party of a child they don't like , then they might realise they need to be nice to people to get them to be nice back. That's not a bad thing.

(I'm also surprised by the parents who know which parties others have been or not been invited too, DS is still only in reception and it's been about half and half all class parties. For the not 'all class' ones, i've really no idea how many other DCs have been invited, if he's the only one left out, or hte only boy etc, I wouldn't know, just that he's not gone - few parties have 100% attendance so it's unlikely that he's the only one who's news of the weekend didn't include that party anyway, would these 3 children even realise they are the only ones not invited?)

jumping in when you don't have the full facts and labelling children bullies won't help the situation.

how long does someone have to be exhibit bullying behaviour for before it is acceptable to call them a bully?
The victim is still being bullied. There is no difference to the victim if those making his life a misery are bullies or "exhibiting a sustained pattern of bullying behaviour"