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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think EU residents living in the UK should have a say?

111 replies

TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway · 28/05/2015 07:57

People like my dh, who has lived here for 15 years and pays into the UK economy, are not going to be given the chance to vote in the upcoming referendum. There are 1.5 million EU citizens living in this country, contributing to our economy, who are not going to get a say in their own future. Aibu to think that this is grossly unfair?

(There is a petition on change.org but I don't think I'm allowed to link to it on here?)

OP posts:
NRomanoff · 28/05/2015 08:19

Why hasn't he become a citizen? genuine question.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 28/05/2015 08:22

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, do they? I suppose we know how EU residents living in the UK feel.

If you want to vote, you should become a citizen.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 28/05/2015 08:22

I should have said, "EU citizens".

PenelopePitstops · 28/05/2015 08:24

Agree with pposters. If you want to vote, become a citizen.

Where do you draw the line? Someone who moved into the country a week ago deserves to vote? Someone who has worked here for a year? Month?

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 28/05/2015 08:24

Yabu

queensansastark · 28/05/2015 08:27

YABVU

TiggieBoo · 28/05/2015 08:28

No, they shouldn't. If you want a say, become a citizen. Was he equally bothered about not voting in the past 3 general elections, which also count a s having a say in your future?
I would hate for a Yes vote to be marred by allegations that it was swayed by the votes of EU citizens.

glenthebattleostrich · 28/05/2015 08:29

YABU.

Original poster
TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway · 28/05/2015 08:29

Someone on the electoral role who pays council tax seems like a clear requirement to me - so obviously not someone who has been here a week Hmm

Up until now it hasn't been worth the £1000 that it costs, plus all the hoops to jump through NRoman to be honest.

UK nationals living in the EU will be allowed to vote - also 'turkeys' by your description Goodbye

OP posts:
queensansastark · 28/05/2015 08:30

And entitled.

Now waiting for someone sanctimonious to coming along with some predictable "human rights" argument...

Original poster
TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway · 28/05/2015 08:30

He would like to have voted in the GE and always votes in local and European elections. In fact this GE was the first time he'd seriously considered citizenship.

OP posts:
OddBoots · 28/05/2015 08:32

I want to stay in and including those people will help turn the vote that way but I don't think non-British citizens should get a vote.

This vote is what the British people want to do, not about if other Europeans think we should stay or not.

The government know that if the vote looks like it isn't actually about what the British people want it won't satisfy those who have put pressure on about having it in the first place.

WidowWadman · 28/05/2015 08:33

There's another thread about this, too. I agree, and think it would have been more just to use the electoral roll used for European elections, as ultimately it is a European matter.

To those asking why he doesn't just take citizenship - to do that you have to spend around 1200 quid all in, attend a language test, a life in the UK test and a ceremony (3 days of annual leave) which is not easy for everyone. The process is long winded, dealing with a government agency which has hopelessly outdated processes and is unwilling to even allow you to track the progress of your application and takes months. If they make mistake, you can add further time and cost to rectify.

Also, currently EU nationals have the right to settle in any member state, so many felt that they didn't need to make that expense, so why should they.

I've taken UK citizenship last year, because the thought of a referendum and the growing anti-EU and anti-immigrant propaganda started to scare the life out of me. Many of my fellow EU migrant friends thought I was overreacting, but are now looking into applying themselves. The system couldn't cope before there was a particular run, I expect it will be even worse if there is an increased number of applications from scared EU migrants.

WidowWadman · 28/05/2015 08:34

Odd boots under GE rules plenty of non British citizens can vote, namely those from the commonwealth.

DorothyL · 28/05/2015 08:37

I am in the same position. I have not become a UK citizen because I didn't want to give up my other nationality, which I would have had to do, and because I thought we were one Europe so I thought it didn't matter. I have lived here for 17 years, own a house, my children are British citizens, I pay taxes... Yes I think I should be allowed to vote in the referendum and in general elections.

lljkk · 28/05/2015 08:38

I got citizenship so that I could vote. It was my number one reason after living here almost 20 yrs.

Is he prepared to swear an oath of loyalty to the crown, or that meaningless to him anyway?

He might have to renounce his other nationalisty/ies (may be required). Getting rights of a citizen is supposed to be a big deal.

lljkk · 28/05/2015 08:40

If paying taxes is all that matters to being able to vote, then I guess people who don't pay tax shouldn't be allowed to vote? (We're going to go around the houses with same arguments from other thread).

Narks me hugely that people want to make citizenship so trivial and a mere tax-investment matter.

WidowWadman · 28/05/2015 08:41

Under EU regs one member state can't deny a citizen dual nationality of another memberstate anymore, although it might be that not all have implemented that yet. Germany did in 2007, allowing me to retain my German citizenship.

I'd urge anyone who feels strongly about this to write to their MP about this - easiest way to contact them is theyworkforyou.com

lljkk · 28/05/2015 08:43

if you aren't a citizen, do you have an MP? MPs aren't accountable to ineligible voters.

Original poster
TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway · 28/05/2015 08:43

He's thinking along the same lines as you Dorothy, and that it may be an advantage to our children in the future to have dual nationality.

And yes if it's about 'entitlement' - yes, after all these years of contributing to the UK economy shouldn't he be 'entitled' to have a say in the government in charge of that economy?

OP posts:
WidowWadman · 28/05/2015 08:45

Iljk that people don't treat citizenship as a trivial matter is exactly the reason why a lot of them have not applied, as the right to free movement was plenty enough to settle anywhere in the EU. Now this right should be taken away from them years after they made their home perfectly legally in the UK (or in the case of UK nationals somewhere within the EU/outside the UK for more than 15 years) without being allowed a say narks.

Original poster
TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway · 28/05/2015 08:45

That's an interesting point Iljkk - there aren't any easy answers to that one

OP posts:
WidowWadman · 28/05/2015 08:48

Iijlk - MPs are to look after anyone resident in their constituency, not only after those eligible to vote, so under 18s, or non UK citizens can write to them too of course. It'd be a scary place if those who aren't eligible to vote for whatever reason would not have any representation at all.

Alisvolatpropiis · 28/05/2015 08:48

Yabu and this topic is currently the subject of an on going thread.

HeinousPieTrap · 28/05/2015 08:50

no YANBU. I read once London is the sixth biggest French city on the basis of French nationals living there. Imagine if they left en bloc! When will people get it into their heads that an economy isn't like a box that you fit so many people into, and then there's no more room.... the people ARE the economy, they make the work.

I'm living in Germany atm and the whole conversation is so different - e.g. discussions on how to get asylum seekers into work so that they are are contributing, and therefore take down the barriers to employers taking them on. It makes so much sense if you think about it for 5 seconds (rather than reading the DM, there's no economic sense to be found in there).

Sorry, rant over. But YADNBU!!