To think EU residents living in the UK should have a say?

[TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway]

People like my dh, who has lived here for 15 years and pays into the UK economy, are not going to be given the chance to vote in the upcoming referendum. There are 1.5 million EU citizens living in this country, contributing to our economy, who are not going to get a say in their own future. Aibu to think that this is grossly unfair?

(There is a petition on change.org but I don't think I'm allowed to link to it on here?)

[JassyRadlett]

Non-British Eu residents want two citizenships, (handy if it all goes tits up) - I can have only one.

No, you can have two as well, as long as you are willing to uproot yourself from your community and move to a foreign country away from your family and friends, find work, pay into the system and build a new life for yourself.

The choice is completely available to you. It is simply an option you have elected not to pursue.

On the franchise - it is utterly illogical that I as a Commonwealth citizen can vote in this referendum, but an EU citizen who has lived here just as long as I have cannot.

[JassyRadlett]

I have just clocked that maybe the decision on electoral franchise, apart from being designed to appeal to a certain troublesome wing of the Conservative party, may well be a plan by the Home Office to rake in a bit of hassle-free cash.

Big gamble if you're Austrian, for example. Give up your home nationality so you can vote here, and what if Britain votes to exit? You're permanently exiled from the country of your birth.

[Viviennemary]

No I don't think they should have a vote. I'm voting to come out of the EU.

[maninawomansworld]

I think it should be that if you are eligible to vote in a general election then you get to vote in the EU referendum.

[IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou]

If they do let them vote it'll play right into the hands of the Brexit lot who already think Brussels has it's fingers too far into our pie.

Diluting the citizens vote would go a long way to proving they were right!!

As things stand, I'd probably vote to stay in the EU - but if the rules were changed to allow non-UK citizens to vote on it, I'd vote to exit.....

[PennyJennyPie]

So all the people who think it would be reasonable to pay 1000£ for the right to vote ( and remember this is the only benefit most EU nationals would get from becoming a UK citizen), I would then challenge you to donate 1000£ to a charity of your liking for the right to vote in any future election. Is that an unreasonable request? If so I would really appreciate an explanation why?

[notinagreatplace]

Jassy - no reason why you'd have to give up your home nationality, you can have dual citizenship (or more if you like/are eligible.)

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Because it's not required by law, Penny. Stupid comparison.

[OddBoots]

If I was sufficiently interested in another country that I would want to not only live there long term but also have a say in big decisions about how that country is governed then I would have no issue with jumping through the required hoops to gain citizenship, with the costs associated with that. It isn't just about the money, it is about holding a continuing personal interest in the country rather than just being there while it suits.

[Mistigri]

There's a lot of misinformation on this thread :-/

Not all countries allow dual citizenship - in the EU it is restricted, notably, by Germany, Spain and the Netherlands among others. German citizens for eg can have dual citizenship of EU countries but (by and large) not otherwise, which would make me nervous about obtaining UK citizenship if I were a German living in the UK (imagine, in the worst case scenario, having to obtain a visa to visit the country of your birth, and a work permit before being allowed to move back!).

On balance I don't think EU citizens should have the right to participate in the referendum but I'd be more sympathetic to an argument in favour of those with a long-term commitment to the UK being granted a say.

[TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway]

Thanks for all the replies, it's interesting to read other opinions.

We really can't afford the citizenship at the moment (dh's job is EU funded and far from secure at the moment) - he's certainly not here for the money , he's here because he met me and stayed.
It's interesting that UK nationals living abroad can vote and he can't (and I'm not saying they shouldn't - they stand to lose a lot too).

[popmimiboo]

Knittingdad:

• The government don't understand that logic, either, so they have decided to change the law so that British citizens who have moved abroad will keep their right to vote in the UK for life.
  
  Do you know when this could happen? Has it definitely been voted?
  I'm one of the many "voteless" British non residents -no vote in UK as I live and work abroad, yet no vote in France as I am not, and have no desire to become, a French national.

[popmimiboo]

OP -I'm British abroad but can't vote in the UK due to 15 year law and can't vote in France due to not being a French citizen
I feel your DH's pain.

[IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou]

I would then challenge you to donate 1000£ to a charity of your liking for the right to vote in any future election. Is that an unreasonable request? If so I would really appreciate an explanation why?

Because it's an infantile comparison - are you 5?

Seriously - if you want to vote in this country, become a citizen. Otherwise you have fuck all right to demand anything #wantitallfornothing

[JassyRadlett]

^Do you know when this could happen? Has it definitely been voted?
I'm one of the many "voteless" British non residents -no vote in UK as I live and work abroad, yet no vote in France as I am not, and have no desire to become, a French national.^

It was a Bill in the Queen's Speech but no detail or timetable beyond this session yet - and commencement date would be later.

I imagine the Tory Eurosceptics would not want it implemented before a referendum.

Actually just checked - the govt has said it would not be in place for the referendum. Guess they saw the inevitable Parliamentary fight coming...

[JassyRadlett]

Seriously - if you want to vote in this country, become a citizen. Otherwise you have fuck all right to demand anything

Except that's not a consistent position, albeit charmingly worded. Current franchise affords voting rights to some non-citizens but not others, and affords different levels of voting rights to some groups of non-citizens based on the type of election.

[JassyRadlett]

Jassy - no reason why you'd have to give up your home nationality, you can have dual citizenship (or more if you like/are eligible.)

Not if your birth country doesn't permit it, which is why I chose Austria as an example.

Quite a few countries don't allow it, and you automatically lose your citizenship if you acquire another. And quite a few of those countries are in the EU.

I do wish people wouldn't make blithe statements that have no basis in fact.

[GoodbyeToAllOfThat]

We all know the UK has "special" rules for the Commonwealth, because of the empire or out of guilt from the empire, something to do with the empire.

Crucially, the UK has decided to confer these rights upon Commonwealth resident citizens.

[GoodbyeToAllOfThat]

Surely your complaint must be with Austria, then? The UK allows dual citizenship.

[JassyRadlett]

I have no complaint with anyone. Our bonkers franchise enables me to vote despite my not paying an extra grand to the chums in Croydon for the privilege.

I simply pointed put that it would be a risky move for an Austrian, or a Latvian, or a Slovakian to take up British citizenship in order to be able to vote in the referendum, knowing that if an Out vote was carried they would be cut off from the country of their birth.

Crucially, the UK has decided to confer these rights upon Commonwealth resident citizens.

Indeed, just as it could decide to confer them upon other groups of resident non-citizens. I'm simply pointing out that the basis on which these decisions have been made are completely lacking in logic or fairness.

[JassyRadlett]

Actually, I lie. My complaint is with people making assertions that are totally incorrect.

It's not a question of interpretation, politics or positioning. It is factually inaccurate to state that dual citizenship is possible for all EU residents of the UK.

[IonaNE]

OP, I am like your DH - except I have paid the £1,000 and become a British citizen because for me it was worth the money and jumping through the hoops. Thus I could vote in General Elections and will be able to vote in the referendum.

UK nationals living elsewhere in the EU will be able to vote in the referendum because they are British citizens and the referendum is about Britain.

[JassyRadlett]

UK nationals living elsewhere in the EU will be able to vote in the referendum because they are British citizens and the referendum is about Britain.

Unless of course they've been gone more than 15 years.

[GoodbyeToAllOfThat]

It's not a question of interpretation, politics or positioning. It is factually inaccurate to state that dual citizenship is possible for all EU residents of the UK.

As I said, the complaint should rest with the country not allowing dual citizenship - not the UK. Even the punitive US regime allows it.

As for the lack of logic in the Commonwealth vs the EU - the "lack of consistency" is for the UK to indulge in as they see fit, being a sovereign nation and all that. Let expats shop around for the most desirable country, yes?

This aside, there is undoubtably a measure of guilt underlying the Commonwealth policies, as well there should be.

[Toadinthehole]

We all know the UK has "special" rules for the Commonwealth, because of the empire or out of guilt from the empire, something to do with the empire.

Or perhaps the average Commonwealth country has stronger historic and cultural ties with Britain than Britain does with the EU.