To think EU residents living in the UK should have a say?

[TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway]

People like my dh, who has lived here for 15 years and pays into the UK economy, are not going to be given the chance to vote in the upcoming referendum. There are 1.5 million EU citizens living in this country, contributing to our economy, who are not going to get a say in their own future. Aibu to think that this is grossly unfair?

(There is a petition on change.org but I don't think I'm allowed to link to it on here?)

[GoodbyeToAllOfThat]

Getting rights of a citizen is supposed to be a big deal.

Yes.

[OrangeVase]

No Non British citizens should not be allowed to vote on this. It is about whether the British people want to stay in the EU.

If someone wants to keep their original citizenship and does not think that it is "worth" becoming a British citizen then why should they have the huge responsibilityof voting on something so major.

Also since one of the reasons the referendum has come about is the feeling that British citizens are losing control over their own future, (I am not saying that this is true or otherwise, I am saying that it is a reason it became a big issue).

Quite a lot of people feel that British law is being made in Brussells, that EU rights trump British rights, that non-British EU citizens in the UK get double the advantages so allowing a vote would be playing right into the hands of the "Out" campaign.

(Oh, and if a Brit moved to your home country could she vote?)

[HayFeverHell]

What's the point in being a citizen? Does it mean anything anymore? Or has it become irrelevant within the EU? Serious questions because I am not sure. And I think how you answer them determines how you answer the OP's question.

I haven't pondered this carefully OP, but my first reaction is that this is one of the shrinking areas that really is about citizenship of the nation-state and therefore it should only be citizens voting. An easy answer for most "disenfranchised" foreign residents is to become citizens. If you want the perks of citizenship, you should bare the responsibilities too. No one can have their cake and eat it too.

[GoodbyeToAllOfThat]

I agree with Hay. It's not for Europe to decide if Britain stays in the EU, it's for Britain to decide.

I haven't pondered it sufficiently, either, but this kind of sentiment is exactly what has given rise to the referendum.

[sinpan]

Yanbu. The referendum is already being framed to maximise the chances of a certain outcome. Some of the YABU comments above reinforce that - They shouldn't be allowed to vote because I might not like how they vote. If you agree with no taxation without representation, they should be allowed to vote. Framing it as being only about 'the British people' is already anticipating the outcome and is particularly ironic given that constituent parts of the Uk may not vote in the same way.

It amuses me that many of the people (not Mumsnetters necessarily, but certainly MPs and many other people in public life) opining on about how Brussels makes the rules anf this is an assault on British sovereignty, were also opposed to self-determination for Scotland. Funny how Westminster is the place where all power should reside - who benefits from this argument?

[LadyCuntingtonThe3rd]

I have been living in UK for 4 years now and want to become a citizen, but I think it's unlikely I will because of how much it costs.
My DP is British and I have a DD with him. I have no intention to return to my home country. How are they thinking it will work? Will they kick me out and will leave DD to DP? She has dual nationality, so it won't work very well. Or force me to apply for long-term visa? I can't afford it either.
I would become citizen if they would make it more affordable and I'm sure that many others would. But because they won't do it, they could at least allow people who are eligible to apply for UK citizenship to vote without becoming a citizen. Anyone who has lived here for 5 years (or 3 and married to a citizen) wants to stay here. It's our home, we'd like to be able to decide on our future.

[lljkk]

Suppose that if you have 10 yrs of full NI contributions then you can vote (after swearing an oath of fealty to the crown, as well, I hope).

How the heck is that fair to someone who has been resident for 19 yrs, has just 9.5 yrs of full NI contributions and owns a house, with many children born here? (That was me, btw, before I got citizenship).

Whatever system they come up with it's going to seem very unfair to someone.

I don't quite get the Commonwealth right to vote... but from what I read, it's Commonwealth citizens who have had the most disbenefit from the EU Free-movement system because one of the few ways UK can reduce immigration is to crack down on immigrants from everywhere else. Farage (yes I loathe UKIP too) was right to point out that it's harder for Uk to accept persecuted refugees when having to try so hard to control economic and social migrants.

Plus members of some Commonwealth can still enlist in British military, there's a kind of historical convenent there, that is being distorted because of the concerns over within-EU migration.

[OrangeVase]

HayFeverHell - like the name - fellow sufferer - could barely see yesterday!!

"No one can have their cake and eat it too." - I think that is key to how many people feel.

(I know that this was not your point HayFeverHell - I don't want to put words inot your mouth - this is what I have observed in my own social circle and what I meant by "double the advantages".)

Non-British Eu residents want two citizenships, (handy if it all goes tits up) - I can have only one.

Mrs Bloggs pays London costs of living out of her child benefit whereas Mr Non-Brit who is working here but bringing up his childern in much lower cost EU country claims the same and has it sent home where it is worth a lot more.

Family X claim housing benefit while owning a flat in Prague and renting it out while living in the UK. (Yet rules for foreigners, (ie Brits), buying second homes in Prague and other cities in EU countries make it impossible for them to do the same)

In the UK full language support, financial help and general acceptance, (especially in the major cities), make the UK a great place for EU migrants. That is not reciprocated. If Ms Bloggs pitched up with her three kids in many EU cities with her kids - the opportunities and support would not be there.

I also agree that many EU people , (not just in the UK - talk to the Spanish about this, or many of the French and Germans) feel that:--

"this is one of the shrinking areas that really is about citizenship of the nation-state"

[FuzzyWizard]

I think YANBU. I know someone who has lived here for a long time, their children are British and their life is here. I know they have toyed with citizenship but because they are French they are not able to have dual citizenship and don't want to permanently give up their French citizenship. I think they should have a right to vote in the referendum.

[knittingdad]

EU citizens have never been given the right to vote in each other's national elections, and I don't recall that EU citizens were allowed to vote in previous EU referendums in Ireland, France, the Netherlands, etc.

[WidowWadman]

orange how did you get the frankly ridiculous idea that non British EU nationals resident in the UK would be able to claim benefits despite having assets abroad? That's a lie, which undoubtedly is promoted by Eurosceptic xenophobes. You have to declare any income, savings or assets you have anywhere in the world, just like any UK citizen too.

Lies and myths like the ones in your post really make me quite cross.

[AtomicDog]

I think YABU. This is about Britain's membership, and if he hasn't become British then he shouldn't have a say. My DH has been here a long time too- he's taken citizenship.

[HayFeverHell]

I became a British Citizen in 2012. I had to pay a rather large fee, pass an exam and swear an oath. Most things worth having cost you something. The costs of acquiring citizenship is, in my opinion, value for money. I originally come from a stable, wealthy country. If I didn't, British citizenship would have been even more valuable.

After living here over 10 years, paying taxes here, having my babies here and buying my house here, I realised that my future is here and that I feel more attuned to life here than in my old "home country." I could have lived out the rest of my days here being treated well and fairly without taking citizenship, but I wanted to be "all in."

I personally feel that if someone cannot be bothered to take the time or spend the money to become a citizen; then, they really shouldn't complain about not being able to vote.

[mateysmum]

YABU. This is not about whether you make a financial contribution currently to the British economy, it is about something far more fundamental than that. It covers issues about the currency, the constitution, law and sovereignty. Why should citizens of other countries who do not have a stake in these things be able to vote?

If the UK voted to leave the EU, it is not suddenly going to deport all EU citizens living here. There may be changes to the terms and conditions under which they can come here and remain here, but to suggest they are all going to be made to leave is just scaremongering.

[WidowWadman]

Mateysmum of course people who have settled in the UK exercising their right to free movement have a pretty big stake in the question if that right remains or not. Ditto UK citizens who have exercised their right to free movement elsewhere in the EU for more than 15 years have a stake too.

[QueenofallIsee]

To have a say in how a country is run, you should be a citizen of that country. I am a huge supporter of British EU membership and have no axe to grind in respect of free movement/EU migration BUT that does not extend to giving anyone who has residency in Britain the right to vote.

I certainly did not expect British citizens to have the ability to vote in the referendum of other countries! Living here makes you a recipient of EU benefit not a citizen of Britain

[WidowWadman]

In the Scottish referendum residents were allowed to vote, not just Scots. Was that wrong in your view?

[IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou]

Up until now it hasn't been worth the £1000 that it costs,

"Not worth it" , says a lot.

I don't think it's "worth" letting non British citizens vote, as they'll only vote for what's best for them at this particular time.

The Citizens will have to live with the results forever.....

[queensansastark]

It's not just about paying taxes or having the money to invest in UK plc. As a Brit expat working in living in Malaysia, I pay my taxes in Malaysia, contribute to the economy here. I don't get to vote in the GE in Malaysia and that's OK and I accept that, I certainly don't feel entitled that I have a right to.

Don't get me started with the global super rich who buy up a lot of the London properties as an investment, driving the crazy London prices....as long as they have the money it's OK, nothing about citizenship or residency requirements. That's a different thread.

It seems everyone in the world wants a piece of UK ...and the Brits have been very patient and are finally fed up.

[QueenofallIsee]

Well Widow, actually yes I think it was wrong! The fact that all residents of Scotland regardless of their citizenship were eligible to vote but Scottish people living outside the country didn't seem utterly preposterous to me

[Degustibusnonestdisputandem]

I'm an Australian with ILR (another who doesn't have the £1K to pay for citizenship right now - given that over the years I've already forked out around £2.5K forgive me if I'm a bit annoyed at having to pay even more...I will but I'm not happy about it)...

I seem to remember reading somewhere that me being able to vote here is something to do with concessions made regarding the British Nationality Act 1948? I do think it's probably not very fair seeing as UK citizens can't vote in Oz...

[GoodbyeToAllOfThat]

In the Scottish referendum residents were allowed to vote, not just Scots. Was that wrong in your view?

Yes.

[IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou]

In the Scottish referendum residents were allowed to vote, not just Scots. Was that wrong in your view?

Yes from me too. It should have been open to all Scottish citizens, rahter than anyone living there.

[CiderwithBuda]

I'm finding this a bit confusing. How do I find out if I can vote? I'm Irish but live in UK, married to a British husband. Voted in the General Electiion so am on the electoral roll.

DS was born Ireland and has an Irish passport - mainly because I felt we are all one Europe. That might come back to bite me! DH wanted him to have a Britsh passport but I couldn't see the point.

[FuzzyWizard]

What is Scottish citizenship and how do you get it? I thought you just had UK citizenship. I didn't know there was separate citizenship for England, Wales, Scotland etc.