To think EU residents living in the UK should have a say?

[TheColdDoesBotherMeAnyway]

People like my dh, who has lived here for 15 years and pays into the UK economy, are not going to be given the chance to vote in the upcoming referendum. There are 1.5 million EU citizens living in this country, contributing to our economy, who are not going to get a say in their own future. Aibu to think that this is grossly unfair?

(There is a petition on change.org but I don't think I'm allowed to link to it on here?)

[JassyRadlett]

Which is a reasonable response, if I'd been saying it's a problem or the UK's fault. If you read my original post on the issue I was pointing out one of the reasons that some EU nationals might be nervous about acquiring UK citizenship to those saying 'if they want to vote they should just pay the £1K!'. Because it isn't as simple as that for some people.

I do however blame the UK for lack of logic in its franchise policy, as I would with any policy that lacked a logical basis. It is, as you say, its sovereign right. However it doesn't make it immune from criticism that it is bad policy.

[JassyRadlett]

Let expats shop around for the most desirable country, yes?

That's such an odd and insular statement, ignoring the fact that many immigrants (I think expats is an awful term, I am happy to own my immigrant status) remain here not simply because we've 'shopped around' but because we have put down ties here and, in a lot of cases on this thread, married a local.

[popmimiboo]

Why 15 years though? Am I any less British than I was last year?
I return to the UK for at least a month a year, have never spent xmas in France, speak English at home and work, watch English TV, read British newspapers...

And don't have the right to vote in France.

Thus, have no right to vote.

How is this, in any way fair or logical?

[GoodbyeToAllOfThat]

If you think "expat" is an awful term and prefer "immigrant", then by all means let's use "immigrant".

But what about all the immigrants who have come here for jobs rather than marriage? Surely they take the measure of it all, rather than "putting down ties"?

So, you don't think the UK is wrong in disallowing EU residents from voting. I wouldn't have gotten that impression from your post.

[JassyRadlett]

So, you don't think the UK is wrong in disallowing EU residents from voting. I wouldn't have gotten that impression from your post.

Why?

I don't think it's automatically wrong. I think what's wrong is an illogical and unfair system of voting rules. Restricting the franchise to citizens makes sense. Allowing a residency test makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is a vote-worthy foreigners and non-vote-worthy foreigners system.

What really doesn't make sense is preventing British citizens from voting if they've been out of the country fof 15 years, but not having equivalent franchise for those resident here for the same duration.

I think it's particularly shitty that having acknowledged the unfairness and lack of logic in this area before the election, and confirmed that they will change it, they've kicked doing it until after the referendum to avoid a fight within the party and a potentially embarrassing Commons rebellion.

I think 'expat' is an awful term as it's often used to describe what peoe see as 'good' immigrants while 'immigrant' is used for the less desirable ones, with particular racial overtones. There have been interesting studies on this and an interesting MN discussion recently. I'm not suggesting that was your intent - but it's unfortunately how the word is predominantly used.

[JustAPawn]

Can I just ask, apart from being able to vote, what other advantages/benefits does British citizenship has to a EU national?

[lljkk]

I don't see how a No Referendum will mean chucking out en masse the non-Brits. Those who have been here 5 yrs or so will be eligible to apply for IDR, for instance.

Why bother to get nationalised...

For a start, the hypothetical EU national would be secure in their choice to continue living in Britain.

If I go missing or get in trouble with another country, it's nice that UK will be interested in my plight & be consul/embassy I can contact. Yes I have another nationality, but even better to have 2 interested govts.

As a British national I have a different/better relationship with commonwealth countries (potentially better visa requirements and so on) than as my original nationality.

If Britain Does stay in EU, being a Brit national enables work elsewhere in EU (in case your other nationality leaves EU, not unthinkable for some).

There's an aspect of my job that means I was a stronger candidate for having been naturalised.

==========

Legally the UK can't start doing drastic rule changes about who can vote compared to what they have recently done, people should have been moaning for last 50 yrs about Commonwealth privileges being irrational not just at this moment when it personally affects them.

I shall continue to call myself an immigrant not an expat.

[JassyRadlett]

Legally the UK can't start doing drastic rule changes about who can vote compared to what they have recently done, people should have been moaning for last 50 yrs about Commonwealth privileges being irrational not just at this moment when it personally affects them.

I've been moaning about it for the last decade, and the current system is advantageous to me.

It's a rare cause I have in common with MigrationWatch (who've campaigned on the issue in the past). Successive governments have also ignored the findings of Lord Goldsmith's review of the issue - that there should be a link between citizenship and voting rights.

Some of the voting unfairness could be dealt with, eg by passing and implementing the Votes for Life Bill before the referendum. Changes to the franchise require primary legislation.

It does feel absurd that citizens of 3 EU countries will be able to vote in the referendum based on history, but the others will not.

[SuiGeneris]

What is so wrong with being an immigrant who has come to the UK to work?

I have lived and worked in the UK for over 15 years. Paid tax and have had no representation and no say in the government of the country. Why is that less good than being married to a UK national ( which, incidentally, I have also done)?

On the EU, it would be nice if for once UK politicians and civil servants acknowledged quite how much influence they wield. Many a "European" rule has been drafted in Westminster...

[WidowWadman]

Goodbye - even if the original motivation to move was a job, if you stay for years in the same place it's normal to put down roots.

I find it surprising how easy some people (who mostly don't have the experience themselves) think it is to emigrate/move on.

[GoodbyeToAllOfThat]

Of course it is normal to "put down ties". I was pointing out that a lot of people come to the UK for work, rather than a British spouse - so it's a financial choice rather than a familial one.

I'm a naturalised UK citizen, by the way.