To ask friend not to bring her DS to our family-friendly garden party?

[CaspianSea]

At end of May DH and I are having a party to celebrate our new home. Weather permitting it will be mainly outdoors as we have big garden with outdoor lighting, and a covered patio area. We're thinking BBQ, drinks, fairy lights and lanterns in trees etc and will be inviting friends to bring tents and sleep over if they want to. So not a formal party but relaxing and fun with a 'magical' feel. It's a lovely garden with water features and mature trees, plus a swing, great for kids. Many of our friends have kids, some don't, we're happy for kids to come. We don't mind a bit of noise, boisterous play, tree-climbing etc provided parents keep control. What I don't want is the garden getting trashed or me and DH having to keep an eye on kids if people let them go wild.

Most of our friends' kids are well-behaved. The problem is one of my close friends. She has a 6-yr-old DS who is very loud, rude and obnoxious. He does not have SEN though he's been assessed at school due to behaviour problems and bullying other kids. My friend laughs off his behaviour and says he is 'a livewire'. He's the apple of her eye and she's very indulgent of his behaviour, saying he is 'a bit different'. For the past 4 years, every time we meet up with them he causes some kind of scene. He is always shouting, yelling and screeching indoors though my friend feigns deafness (last week he was repeatedly hitting her over head with a balloon whilst shouting, she just ignored him and carried on her conversation). Last time they came to our house he trampled my flowers, kicked a dent in rabbit hutch, let my rabbits escape then chased them with a stick he'd snapped off tree and was generally nasty to the other kids present, pushing and shoving them and spitting on the smaller kids. He also went into our bedroom and bounced on bed. My friend shrugged it off and apart from a few mild attempts to get him to calm down, seemed to think it was ok for him to tear around shrieking for hours, so loudly nobody could enjoy the day. Every time we go to their house he has some kind of meltdown if he doesn't get his own way, and Ive lost count of times he's had tantrums in cafes. Once his dad lost patience and smacked him (for throwing food at lady on next table) and my friend told off her husband in front of everyone and made him apologise to his own son for smacking him! Her husband is very meek and downtrodden.

I can't not invite my friend to pastry and I'm happy for her DD to come, but I know her DS will ruin the party and upset other people's children. AIBU to ask her to leave DS with his grandma for the eve?

I wonder if I could go camping at the water feature bit in the yard at Dobbies...

IME parents who bring their children to a party where they can drink are unlikely to supervise their children that closely. Your garden sounds fab but water and gaps in the wall would make me think it's not child proofed at all and as much as you may think it, the parents will let their children go off and play and won't be monitoring them that closely. Your flowers are likely to get trampled, in the dark with loads of young children running around all excited because of the camping.

I would be very concerned that a child could wake earlier than its parents, get up and leave the tent and find the water. I HATE ponds and children. So many houses we viewed last year had bloody ponds in the garden.

Glow stick necklaces and bracelets are really useful for spotting children in the dark. I might also make some lanterns (glow stick in an empty plastic bottle with string), if they do go exploring.

I don't think you can really ban him from going. Your friendship would pretty much be over.

I'd give him/them one last chance.

I'd have a general chat with her along the lines of "Ooh I keep thinking I must be mad! I hope all the kids behave themselves! It's really difficult isn't it; I want everyone to relax and have a good time but I hope ALL THE PARENTS keep an eye on their kids.... Dread stuff getting broken/someone getting hurt. I suppose I'll just have to be firm with people at the first hint of trouble...."

And then carry it through if necessary - "God sorry but I've got to treat everyone the same.....do you think you could rein little Damien in a bit? Only he's trying to drown Lucy/Has pissed in the water feature and I don't want all the kids thinking they can do it too" followed by - if necessary - look this isn't working. I think it's too much for little Damien. He's now trying to feed worms to X's baby. Time to take him home I think. Shall I call you a cab?"

Ie give them a chance but step in firmly if need be. You'll have done all you can and your conscience will be clear.

Parents with kids over about four won't supervise constantly. And two and three year-olds will want to run around after the other kids. I think there is a fair chance of flower bed trampling etc. and parents not being able to relax. It sounds lovely, but only really for over eights.

I would always cover a pond, but would always expect parents to look out for their children. Seriously, does a party where parents and kids are invited put the responsibility for care with the hosts? Inviting the whole family is about providing hosptality to all, and parents need to sort out out how they work this, I.e. One drinks, one drives, one watches for however long, etc.

I'm amazed at the number of posters who suggest that parents will be pissed and unable to keep an eye out.

I agree with you clam. (9.28 and 11.23) Very sensible posts.
A wonder anyone ever holds a summer, outdoor family party with some of the responses to this thread!

Another here agreeing with clam Why do kids have to have everything micromanaged these days, what's wrong with them just playing together, making it up as they go along? And anyone with young children knows they have to supervise them, it goes with the territory.

Also, ime, everyone at a party like this tends to look out for each others kids, they step in if the need arises....maybe that's just me and my friends, but we've had loads of parties (inside and out) and never had anything wrecked. I have a friend whose child went through the stage of emptying my ds' toy cupboard but that was easily solved by leaving out toys that were to be played with, and moving anything special, much loved or fiddly with a million pieces yes Knex that'll be you into our rroom and tying the door shut. Not rocket science!!

And re the pp who said the friends child may be very anxious, well he isn't as anxious as the poor bloody rabbits!! That would have been it for me, he can come back when he learns to be gentle with animals.

The whole event would not suit my ds either. He is 10 now and the only way it would work is if I let him bring an ipad or something. He does not tolerate boredom well at all and a whole evening of this would just be too much. He would end up throwing himself on the floor and rolling around or climbing and jumping off things. Things would get broken even if only by accident and I would be on edge the whole time. Now he is 10, he would be Ok for an couple of hours but no way would we stay a whole evening.

At 5-6 years old DS would not have coped at all with this sort of evening, I used to be quite firm and constantly telling DS not to do things and removing him if he misbehaved after a warning. I regularly carried him away from places while he was screaming and hitting at me after being told off. I can honestly say I never once gave in to tantrummy requests, not even in public but that meant that people then told me to my face that I was over reacting, not to make a fuss, to let him have what he wanted (just to stop the screaming), that if I were less stressed so would he be.

The truth here is that whatever the parent does will not be enough for the OP, because it won't stop the child's behaviour completely and immediately which is all the OP (understandably) is interested in. Changing a child's behaviour takes time (years for DS) and patience and the OP just wants a nice evening.

OP don't exclude the child, just don't invite the family. Then maybe you could consider how good this friend is because it is likely she needs support to deal with her son and if you aren't able to give that, it might be better not to see her at all. I have very few friends left as a result of some of DS's past behaviour but the ones I have are very good friends who try to include us when they can and who ask us if we feel an event will work for us. If we don't think so we don't go, That is fine with us.

I totally agree with Clams last 2 posts. It's not about whether this boy has SN or not, it's about whether the boys behaviour will affect others enjoyment and the OPs property being damaged.

It's hard being a parent of a 'difficult' child or a child with SN. But it doesn't mean your feelings of isolation should be pit above others feelings of protecting their property.

I have a child with SN - so I know what it's like to be on both sides of this.

Why should it be your responsibility to child proof your garden? Just make the guests aware that there are water features and other not very child friendly features and make it clear that their children are their responsibility.

You also need to consider your friendships with your other guests. Do you want them to invite them into your new home and then have their children hurt or bullied by this lad?

"I'm amazed at the number of posters who suggest that parents will be pissed and unable to keep an eye out."

I wasn't saying they would be unable to keep an eye out. In my personal experience, at big get togethers where alcohol would be involved, many parents just wouldn't bother to keep an eye out. They'd let their kids roam free and be busy socialising, not concerned if their kids are near water or trampling some flowers. That may not be the case for everyone but I certainly know parents like this.

Caspian if the other parents know the child, could you casually ask them?

If they look horrified and go aghast, you'll get the idea that it's a bad move.
Good Luck.

I think I couldn't ask the child or parents as it could have serious repercussions with other families as well as threaten the livestock.
OP you must have a discussion with your friend re her son, no real option, sorry!

I don't think you need to child proof every aspect of your garden, but I would definitely childproof the ponds/water features, sorry. They are so dangerous, and things happen so quickly!

Children can disappear in the wink of an eye, as well - most will still be easy to find, especially if you use glowstick bracelets or whatever; but some will be runners. And they will be the problem, unless the parents of said runners have them under strict supervision. No use expecting bigger children to look out for the little ones either; once they get together and start to play, they won't think about it, and it's really not their responsibility.