To ask friend not to bring her DS to our family-friendly garden party?

[CaspianSea]

At end of May DH and I are having a party to celebrate our new home. Weather permitting it will be mainly outdoors as we have big garden with outdoor lighting, and a covered patio area. We're thinking BBQ, drinks, fairy lights and lanterns in trees etc and will be inviting friends to bring tents and sleep over if they want to. So not a formal party but relaxing and fun with a 'magical' feel. It's a lovely garden with water features and mature trees, plus a swing, great for kids. Many of our friends have kids, some don't, we're happy for kids to come. We don't mind a bit of noise, boisterous play, tree-climbing etc provided parents keep control. What I don't want is the garden getting trashed or me and DH having to keep an eye on kids if people let them go wild.

Most of our friends' kids are well-behaved. The problem is one of my close friends. She has a 6-yr-old DS who is very loud, rude and obnoxious. He does not have SEN though he's been assessed at school due to behaviour problems and bullying other kids. My friend laughs off his behaviour and says he is 'a livewire'. He's the apple of her eye and she's very indulgent of his behaviour, saying he is 'a bit different'. For the past 4 years, every time we meet up with them he causes some kind of scene. He is always shouting, yelling and screeching indoors though my friend feigns deafness (last week he was repeatedly hitting her over head with a balloon whilst shouting, she just ignored him and carried on her conversation). Last time they came to our house he trampled my flowers, kicked a dent in rabbit hutch, let my rabbits escape then chased them with a stick he'd snapped off tree and was generally nasty to the other kids present, pushing and shoving them and spitting on the smaller kids. He also went into our bedroom and bounced on bed. My friend shrugged it off and apart from a few mild attempts to get him to calm down, seemed to think it was ok for him to tear around shrieking for hours, so loudly nobody could enjoy the day. Every time we go to their house he has some kind of meltdown if he doesn't get his own way, and Ive lost count of times he's had tantrums in cafes. Once his dad lost patience and smacked him (for throwing food at lady on next table) and my friend told off her husband in front of everyone and made him apologise to his own son for smacking him! Her husband is very meek and downtrodden.

I can't not invite my friend to pastry and I'm happy for her DD to come, but I know her DS will ruin the party and upset other people's children. AIBU to ask her to leave DS with his grandma for the eve?

If both her and her Dh are drinking because they are camping overnight, they won't be in a position to take him home if necessary.

They could get a taxi.

Then they will have to call a cab.

Just ban the little shit. He needs to learn and so do his useless parents, by the sound of it.

banana - they could call a cab if they have to go home early.

I think you have two separate problems. One is the little boy. You’ve had plenty of good advice about that, so I wont add to it.

But also, I’m not too sure about the other children. You seem to be planning a large number of guests of all ages for a long social event in a very large garden (big enough to camp in) The children – including very young ones – are very likely to be coming and going and playing together, and running around in the dark, and will probably be out of sight of their parents for a long time. Well, some (not all) of the behaviour that you’ve seen from the little boy, you might also expect from some of the younger ones. Flower beds might well get walked over (not deliberately stomped). If children are going in and out of the house while adults are outside then beds might get bounced on. You also have a deep pond (I think you mentioned that somewhere), and animals. Imagine a couple of four or five year olds rushing about, or a child who’s been playing with other kids and then wandered off. How will you keep them safe? And your pets, and your home?

I don’t think your party plan is as family-friendly as you hope. It really is more suitable for older children. You either need to do a lot of safety and child-proofing, or rethink some aspects of the event, or only invite families with older children.

And I can't help being reminded of that Elizabeth Bowen story where the hostess at a garden party wonders sadly why the nicest children have the biggest feet!

three of us all having the same thought almost simultaneously.

Either we are telepathic or it is bleeding obvious.

Does the water feature turn this from a BBQ into a garden party?

Could you talk to the friend about the specific behaviour last time and explain that he needs to not damage things, not chase animals and not have a tantrum and that if he starts doing any of those things, the parents need either to stop him or to take him home? If you want to keep the friendship then I think you might need to offer such an olive branch. But be prepared to follow through and ask them to leave if the child does behave very badly.

On a side note, I am deeply confused at how posters are willing to vilify a child with behavioural problems... until they get a doctor's note at which point they have SEN and are untouchable. Surely at 6 the child doesn't have any real moral responsibilities for his own actions either way? I really have difficulty understanding why a child with a medical name for his behavioural problems deserves more sympathy and understanding than one who is "just" badly behaved.

The op has said they're very rural; that's why people need to camp over rather than presumably taxi home. All their stuff will need to be left behind. Not impossible but having to get a taxi will cause a lot of extra bad feeling. Just something else to take into account...

well, there might be even more bad feeling if other children have been spat on or hit with sticks etc and the boy is not taken home. Which is definitely something to consider.

With more or less everything you have said describing you friends DS you could be talking about my own 6 YO DS. Other than he wouldn't do anything to scare or harm an animal!! He has ASD, ADHD, learning difficulties and is hearing impaired. His behaviour is far worse in unfamiliar, unpredictable surroundings/situations. To most people my son just comes across a very rude and naughty! And of course i look like a shit parent! (can assure you my DDs are both very well behaved! and they both have SNs too!)

Please, please, please talk to your friend about your concerns. Things that might help is having a few planned structured activities, and him having as much information prior, so how many other children will be there, how many will be staying overnight, what food you'll be having. Plans for breakfast ect. Where their tent will be. Of course i could be totally wrong! but lots of what you have said about this little boy and his Mums comments about him just being "different" screams to me that he is one VERY VERY anxious little boy .

Good Luck OP.

Theycallmemellowjello I don't think it's a question of villification. It's entirely possible to understand that there may be circs outside of this boy's control (or his parents') for his behaviour, and still not to want to have it dominate your own social activities if he's not your child.

If you are hosting something like OP you want to relax and enjoy it yourself!
Whether or not the boy has SN ( not known) you need to know that the mother will take responsibility for his behaviour and not allow him to spoil things for others.

Why are people still insisting that this boy must have SN, when he has been assessed at school as not, by the appropriate agencies (who, after all, know more about the child than us random MNers). There is still such a thing as just, you know, being 'badly behaved,' or 'lax parenting.'

And even if he did have, it doesn't alter the fact that the OP needs to find a way of managing the situation, in partnership with his parents, who she doesn't want to upset.

If op did not like or care for the friend, she would not be on here trying to find a solution, she would simply not invite. Op I would have a chat with the mum beforehand about expected behaviour, I would intervene if I see things being damaged, and I would alert parents to it. Then next time not invite. Yes have the trial run, have a chat with the parents and see how it goes.

It's a tricky one. Could you organise some activities to keep the kids occupied? Thinking maybe treasure hunts, croquet, drawing corner, painting competition etc.?

'I don’t think your party plan is as family-friendly as you hope. It really is more suitable for older children. You either need to do a lot of safety and child-proofing'

Oh dear. I hadn't thought much about the other kids as we assumed anyone bringing children will take full responsibility for looking after them and keeping them safe. I get the scenario of a child wandering off in dark and getting scared, or falling over or even wandering out of garden (it has a wall around perimeter but wall is quite low on places and there are a couple of gaps). It backs onto fields on 2 sides. There isn't really any way of making it child-proof in sense that kids can be unsupervised and not escape or go out of sight. Despite the lighting there are still dark areas. Wouldn't parents tell young kids to stay in sight and not go out of well-lit areas, and keep tabs on their little ones? Or leave kids at home with babysitter if they don't want to supervise?

Sorry to keep mentioning water features but not sure what else to call them since only 1 is a pond! I'm actually not that 'precious' about them (nor did I choose them they came with house) but I would hope parents see them as decoration not paddling pools.

I don't want to bar younger kids as it would mean a lot of our friends can't come, or can't bring their youngest. I guess we need to be clear about garden and lack of child-proofing in invitation so they can choose whether it's safe enough.
Anyway how would you go about child-proofing this type of garden without erecting fences?

If you're convinced he's going to cause havoc though I think prob best not to invite them at all and be prepared to explain why.

Bensam, yes activities are definitely a good idea. I'll see if some of the parents are willing to get involved in different activities and games.

What worries me are the comments about garden needing child-proofing if young kids are invited. Obviously i want kids to be safe but not sure how this environment can be made totally safe for under-8s. Would parents really come to this sort of party expecting crèche-type facilities or to be able to let little ones run off and play in dark with no supervision?

Hi Caspian. Friends of mine live in a rural location in a house with a huge garden, and they had a very similar sounding party last summer, with people camping in the garden (including us). They also have a huge pond, and had a bonfire, trampoline, and dogs and children running about. And a fry-up buffet breakfast next morning. It was a great success. I think it's ridiculous to expect you to 'child-proof' it. Anyone with little kids just has to supervise them. The bonfire was a big hit with the kids, especially toasting marshmallows.
Re your friend's son, I don't know. I think you'll have to speak honestly to her, as tactfully yet clearly as you can.

I wouldn't worry about child proofing too much (except perhaps the pond if there are tinies about) . The parents will have to take responsibility and presumably most if them already know what your garden is like. It might be worth mentioning what it is like, in advance, to any that are unfamiliar with it.
The kids might not see "the magic" in it, but hopefully it will be fun.

I'd talk to this particular friend in advance, about how you are worried about all the children rampaging around and how you hope that all the parents will supervise closely or else you can see the party being ruined. If it goes down well then you can talk more specifically about her ds.

If she doesn't get the hint, then at the trial run, you can remind her of your original concerns and be a lot blunter.

Given that there are possible dangers for all small children, could your invite include something about wanting everyone to enjoy themselves, but that there are some potential dangers and so those bringing children to make sure they keep a close eye on them.

IMHE of parties with children, once parents (myself included) start drinking and enjoying themselves, they tend to worry less about what their DC are up to

Caspian

when is the party? could one of your friends who has very young ones come over beforehand and perhaps play "spot the danger"?
it would be easier for you - since I've become a mum I can't switch off my inner terminator when I see all the obvious danger zones glowing in red light!
then you can prepare ahead and just make it a bit safer if must.
ultimate it's the parents' responsibility to watch their children but because it is your house and garden (sounds lovely btw!) it's a good idea to make it a stress-free zone.
I honestly couldn't relax if there was an uncovered pond in easy reach or a gate open the entire time etc - kids are crafty, much faster then adults and always do the unexpected!

I agree with everyone else about talking to your friend, but if you decide they are all going to attend just one idea is maybe talk with the boy (with your friend present) and say that you will need his help on the day with little tasks.
I wonder if he would appreciate being in control of something and having a chance to show off that he can be good and helpful (not just destructive).
One of mine is umm hard work to say the least. He is so conforming when he can be in charge and is extremely proud when he gets praised for a little job well done.
try and figure out together how this extra energy could be utilised positively.
he could be the game master? or help serving things perhaps?
I know it's your party but also could turn out to be a fantastic opportunity to help out your friend.
Of course there must be a warning and a discussion that if the boy is not behaving he/they must leave - I wouldn't hesitate to do that if it was my child.

I see your side and equally see hers. I hope you can figure something out.

oh and can I come, please?

Fgs, it's a house-warming for mates, she's not inviting bloody Ofsted. Notwithstanding large cliff faces or dangerous child-eating dogs, it really is not necessary to child-proof the garden - that's for their parents to check out.
And it really should no be necessary to provide creche activities to occupy the kids either. They'll have each other to play with - they probably spend the bulk of their time having things micro-managed for them - let them just get on with it.