To think the supposed Ukip Immigration policy makes complete sense

[QueenOfSouthLondon]

I deciding who to vote and it is definitely not going to be ukip or conservative. But while scrolling all the parties polices on immigration i found Ukips the most sense.

Ukip want an Austrailian points system. My mother came to Britain in 1956 aged just 24 she was a nurse and had a skill. I'm not considering voting ukip but on immigration they have got it right. I think that mass immigration has suppressed wages for the poor and It is wrong to have such a large number. Anyway aibu

Find the data for takeup of

• disability benefits
• single parent benefits
• housing benefit
• jobseekers allowance

and you'll see that UK born claim far far more than immigrants second and third generation non working families contain kids with no work ethic

they will not go out and pick veg in the rain for ten hours at NMW because they can get the same money sat on their arses at home

the work is there but the British have never been willing to do it

hence why the NHS and the care sector are choc a block with immigrants

manatee
That link is interesting.
THe impact of immigrants is small

in fact trivial compared with the impact of Workfare and zero hours contracts

As the daughter and grand daughter of farm labourers and land workers - it's utter bollocks that the British have never been willing to do manual agricultural labour. My family picked potatoes, strawberries, apples and tied hops for generations. Mostly the women.

So, are there no immigrants on your farm?

"sat on their arses at home" and " UK born claim far far more than immigrants
second and third generation non working families contain kids with no work ethic" are on the perjorative side, aren't they?

Even if take up rates do differ, that is different from "UK born get benefits
immigrants don't".

Besides, by definition the large numbers claiming for children living abroad must be immigrants.

It would be nice to have some nuance in the debate.

Posters constantly try to insist the truth is one polar extreme or other.

as well as of course our trans-Tasman neighbours from New Zealand – who don’t need a visa to settle here and so aren’t included in the DIAC figures.

sorry ragged your figures are completely flawed a quick google gave me a figure of 42,000 over 1 year which taking your data and dividing the total by the number of years it covers (very crude but....) makes them number 1

did you read it? it is further down the first page

Zoe
Our starting point was a UKIP policy

talkin* are you talking to Zoe and I?

I don't think anything in what we have said should lead you to think we are farm owners

clarinet
no, Tondelayo - in the post directly above

Eh? I don't own a farm. My family (or many members of them) worked as agricultural labourers and fruit pickers. when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s the workers were mostly casually employed locals especially students and mothers. Now a lot of that work is done by young immigrant seasonal labour who live on site. The locals didn't suddenly decide that they weren't going to do that work any more. The farms decided it was easier and cheaper to import the labour.

clarinet
no, Tondelayo - in the post directly above

ah my apologies I am on two threads ATM so lost track (plus of course all the googling BIWI has got me doing )

And the issue is whether UKIP policy is at all justifiable (and if anyone else has workable alternative policies).

The 'truth' about immigraton in the UK is germane. And disputed.

google is fascinating I have just been reading an article on the Queen's speech

If the UK left Europe it would be utterly and royally screwed
and Farridge would go and live in Germany with his wife and kids.

I am now going to go and watch the Aurora
bye

If the UK left Europe it would be utterly and royally screwed

Well we can agree on that.

Of course Brits worked on farms.

I'm NOT a UKIP supporter and I am pro-immigration.

The argument that immigrants do the work Brits are unprepared to do is utter bollocks. What's happened is that the owners of capital have decided to structure their businesses around the cheapest labour costs possible in order to keep as much profit for themselves - and then set the workforce on each other citing 'lazy' locals for forcing them into the situation. Or blaming immigrants for driving down wages.

Also much LOLZ at the idea that fruit picking is paid at NMW.
Hilarious!

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/257242/migrant-seasonal-workers.pdf

Why are people bothered about immigration at all?
The easiest way to decrease the population is to decrease the birth rate.
Just don't have kids ffs!

Immigration? FUKP will brick up the channel tunnel, with British bricks.
UKIP promise the moon on a stick, but FUKP promise a British moon on a British stick.
FUKP will bring Britain out of the EU by 2025 and the solar system by 2050.
For common sense, vote FUKP!

I should probably go and read the policy now shouldn't I?

Just don't have kids ffs probably not got mass appeal on MUMSNET

skimmed your report talkin did they talk to anyone without a vested interest?

some of the stuff from gov.uk does come across as having a bit of an agenda sometimes IMHO

Why should BIWI have to back up a counter argument with sources when you can't even back up your pathetic assertions? Ffs

The root of most people's discontent with immigration is the perception that foreigners are getting more out than they put in, which simply isn't the case. Non-EU cits aren't even allowed recourse to public funds, it's stamped in their passports. And EU citizens have made a net contribution!!!!
Perhaps what we need is a more French style of welfare? Contribtions based would solve the 'issue' of EU citizens claiming benefits. Although I imagine the uneducated/ill informed Brits that think EU immigration is bad wouldn't be so keen to have benefits withdrawn for themselves.

Many simply don't understand that it goes both ways. You'll need a visa for your cheap European getaways, won't be able to retire to Spain, move to Italy on a whim etc.
AND most importantly EU citizens can only be here if they are exercising a treaty right I.e. Working, studying or self-sufficient. Otherwise they can be deported as the right of freedom of movement isn't without its limits.

Kampeki exactly. I encounter far too many people who think foreign nationals waltz into a council house and sponge for all eternity. Or don't know the difference between asylum seekers and economic migrants. And those who overstay vs those who legitimatly work in the UK.

I despair!

The idea that there is a fixed number of jobs in the economy and that immigration therefore reduces wages (because more people are chasing the same pool of jobs) or that immigrants 'take our jobs' is simply a fallacy. In fact I think economists call it the 'lump of labour' fallacy...
And immigration (in and of itself) does not put a strain on public services per se. Policy failures and lack of planning and investment does that. For example if 100 people come into this country and need a 200 school places- the money they contribute to the tax base is what should/could pay for those school places. If the school places don't materialise then that is down to poor mamangement. People offer two counter arugments to this:

1. There is no room (physical space) for all these people/schools/hospitals (I don't buy this- we're the 53rd most densely populated country- the dutch are above us at number 30 and it doesn't seem to be a problem for them)
2. Immigrants don't contribute to the tax base so don't 'pay in' to the system so are a drain on services. - I don't buy this argument either. There has been some good reseach to show that this is not the overal picture (eg the recent ucl report). And it is (I'm afraid) simply racist becasue it is predicated on the idea that an immigrant is (by nature of their immigration status and 'otherness') less economically viable/less qualified/less able to contribute than a native brit. And that is a huge assumption based on nothiing more than race.