To think the supposed Ukip Immigration policy makes complete sense

[QueenOfSouthLondon]

I deciding who to vote and it is definitely not going to be ukip or conservative. But while scrolling all the parties polices on immigration i found Ukips the most sense.

Ukip want an Austrailian points system. My mother came to Britain in 1956 aged just 24 she was a nurse and had a skill. I'm not considering voting ukip but on immigration they have got it right. I think that mass immigration has suppressed wages for the poor and It is wrong to have such a large number. Anyway aibu

I'm pro people living where they would like to live as a rule, and believe that most anti-immigration policy is incredibly short-sighted and directly exploitative of developing countries, and that it also ignores the fact that the world is becoming richer and less stable, resulting in expensive emigration coming within the economic reach of more people, and an increase in refugees and displaced people due to the number of people we bomb the shit out of. However, there was a serious report just a few years ago showing that large-scale immigration does have a depressant effect on wages in certain areas in the UK. It would be good to see unions and local councils taking those who find ways around the NMW to court, rather than local councils in fact being part of the problem by underpaying carers and using gangmasters to avoid the responsibilities of employment.

I believe the Australian points system style immigration policy was part of the Lib Dems manifesto as the last General Election....

It is virtually impossible to emigrate to the UK if you live outside the UK.

I met my australian dh in the UK.
We married in the UK.
We lived together in the UK for more than a decade.
Dh did his degree in the UK
We have been married for 14 years
We have two british born dc
We own a house in the UK
Dh is a high wage earner

We moved to Australia six years ago.

Now he can't get back into the UK. (He doesn't want to anyway but my mum is ill).

This is because I have to have a job there earning over 18500 pounds. So I have to move there, get a job, hold it for six months, then we can apply.

His wages aren't counted.

So we will be apart for at least six months, more as the visa will take a while.

In that time we will have to run two households and our children will be without one of their parents.

Nobody provides figures -which means there is no debate.

Jeanne has just said that the "NHS would fall over tomorrow" - do we need a list of exact figures, timings, possible replacement worker numbers, etc to be able to prove her right or wrong? Or shall we just think about the idea of the NHS reliance on immigrants? surely her point is worth thinking about not rubbishing.

We've had points based systems based on Australia's for YEARS. It doesn't solve any problems despite being changed time and time again. It's abuse of the system that needs sorting.

Obviously it doesn't include EU nationals. As long as they're exercising their treaty rights the government don't get involved.

We can't leave the EU! I want to retire in Spain!

Yes no records and still no records just guessing on how many people have come here which is shocking.

They rely on the census.

shocking.

Google and you will find numerous articles and figures.

Strange also how people argue that we need un controlled immigration, we just need millions of extra people here, and yet the massive flow OUT of other EU countries is fine, and they are doing OK

Re actual facts and figures, FullFact have some quite good neutral info...

Viviennemary Tue 17-Mar-15 19:53:36
A points based system would be no good at all when anyone from any European country can come here. That's why we need to get out of the EU.

(sarcasm) Great idea, why don’t we get out of a club where we get preferential access to a market containing half a billion of the worlds richest people?

Even red Ed has admitted Labours massive cock up, over predicted immigration figures, even he has admitted this, son of immigrants and yet people still try and argue that its fine!

Is money our end goal here?

Are we all about money?

We are currently in the EU and yet, NHS still dire, schools crammed and dire, roads clogged up, housing building EVERYWHERE, its all crap out there, but apparently, being in the EU is wonderful Where is all this money?

And who cares? Is it trickling down to us on the packed streets? Or is this EU money lining the pockets of big business who are also profiting from cheap EU Labour?

So with an Aussie style system UK would have a net immigration level around 600k/annum.
Might want to rethink whether it's a good idea for UK.

Of course it wouldn't the Uk can set the number of points required wherever it likes, there is no internationally agreed %, we a points based system we could have a net immigration of 1 if we wanted.

I should also ask how many of those going to OZ are from NZ? (and also point out that for a lot from NZ the bubble has burst and they are heading back to NZ again in large numbers) that kind of immigration is different for a start there is no benefits entitlement at all.

I suspect a good start wold be to remove state support (i.e. tax credits etc for those without the necessary contributions/time/ties to the UK)

According to this, the average net migration into the UK has been 194,000 during 2000-2012.
The increase in immigration has had a corresponding increase in emigration, keeping the net flow fairly low.

If this is true:
So with an Aussie style system UK would have a net immigration level around 600k/annum.
Then perhaps it's better to keep the current system. :)

AllTheMadmen - are you on the sauce tonight?!

And again, I ask, please prove the assertions that you are making there.

Biwi, why are you in denial? do you want a list of googled items? if your so interested you google them.

I'm not denying anything. I just want people who make such claims to back them up with facts. They should be the ones Googling!

Happy to debate with people who are prepared to make reasoned arguments, with facts and figures. Not so happy to try and argue with hysterical, Daily Mail-type rants.

are you on the sauce tonight?!

Well I just had a bacon sarnie and we realised there was no brown source, and in terms of boose I have a little tiny bottle of white wine in the fridge that I don't think I am going to indulge in tonight...but who knows, I might. So source thinking has gone on - if that helps?

Why don't you prove otherwise, would be interested to see some articles saying we are at lowest ever immigration....and we need more people.

go on...

So with an Aussie style system UK would have a net immigration level around 600k/annum.

It is not true it is an extrapolation with no basis in fact with a points based system we could have a net figure of 1 if we wanted

we set the score needed

I thought it was widely accepted that those running the country have not 1 single clue how many people are here or where they are from

But I want to know the facts behind the OP's argument. I want to know why she thinks the way that she does, and what's supporting that. It's not about the lowest ever immigration (which latest figures show it's not - net immigration anyway), or whether or not we need more people. It's about the assertion that 'mass immigration' suppresses the wages of poor people.

I want facts to argue against, not opinions.

well counter us with some of your own BIWI.

Migration observatory observations on
impact of migration into the UK

net flow numbers

Just in case someone is actually interested in looking at the figures.

As a Brit living in the EU (a registered Brit to boot) I am also curious about what will happen to my status. Especially as I no longer have the right to vote in UK elections, so don't even get the pleasure of voting against UKIP

Snap. I am sucking up the prospect of getting in the queue for dual citizenship... just in case. Don't fancy the length of the queue once the writing is on the wall so I guess I'll just have to get on with it.

And I'm best case scenario Brit. Becuase after 20 years of marriage to an Italian, and making a mini tricolore waver with my very own body, I am a shoo in for citizenship.

Worst case scenario Brits who have no hope of swinging a working visa or citizenship would be forced to give up their jobs and go home to.... what ? Becuase there would be rather a lot of them flooding in at the same time. And I am not sure that there is any genuine comprehension that we even exist in the numbers we do. So fat chance there will have been the sort of forward planning to manage the logistics well.

Fucking bonkers as a cunning plan "We don't like nasty smelly forrins from the EU ! So let's swap them for the same number of (now deeply pissed off) Brits who have lost their jobs and perhaps their homes, in the process of being forced home" .

That'll make for mucho peace and love in UKIP's Brave New World.

"The greatest wage effects are found for low-waged workers. Dustmann et al (2013) find that each 1% increase in the share of migrants in the UK-born working age population leads to a 0.6% decline in the wages of the 5% lowest paid workers and to an increase in the wages of higher paid workers."

But:
"Manacorda, Manning and Wadsworth (2012) analyse data from 1975-2005 and conclude that the main impact of increased immigration is on the wages of migrants already in the UK."

Why, AllTheMadMen? I'm not the one who is making these claims!

The whole point being that if you can't back your claims, then you shouldn't be making them.

So many people do this - not just UKIP supporters. People on the left are as bad as people on the right. I have no political axe to grind here at all.

But if people really want to debate things seriously, they have to be prepared to back up statements that they are making.