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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the supposed Ukip Immigration policy makes complete sense

210 replies

QueenOfSouthLondon · 17/03/2015 18:29

I deciding who to vote and it is definitely not going to be ukip or conservative. But while scrolling all the parties polices on immigration i found Ukips the most sense.

Ukip want an Austrailian points system. My mother came to Britain in 1956 aged just 24 she was a nurse and had a skill. I'm not considering voting ukip but on immigration they have got it right. I think that mass immigration has suppressed wages for the poor and It is wrong to have such a large number. Anyway aibu

OP posts:
TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 17/03/2015 19:54

Hi Vivienne, what would happen to the British citizens living in the EU in that case?

JanineStHubbins · 17/03/2015 19:55

Yeah, those pesky Europeans. Like me, educating UK students, contributing to the knowledge economy, paying higher rate tax, not claiming any benefits. Hmm

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 17/03/2015 19:57

What's going to happen to the EU members of my team? Will we have to sack them and recruit again?

engeika · 17/03/2015 19:58

Often the family home is still in the home country. Sometimes it is rented out, sometimes it is kept as a second home depending on where it is. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

(I work with people from Czech Republic and Poland mainly)

Viviennemary · 17/03/2015 19:59

People have lived in Europe before we had this free for all immigration policy. They would need work permits as in other countries.

JeanneTheRabidFeminist · 17/03/2015 20:00

I'm not convinced the Black Death is the best example you could have picked there, somehow. Personally, I don't actually want mass plague, and I'm not sure anyone believes it's the only thing that changed the wage system. It also, incidentally, was followed by increasing urbanisation and falls in living standards for poorer people working in semi-industrialised areas.

But that's by the bye.

It is already extremely difficult to immigrate to this country from outside the EU. Do you actually know what the current law is? Because you sound as if you're unaware of it, and of how much we benefit from immigration. As janine points out, without it, our education system would likely fall over (and, that same system is one of the UK's bigger exports to foreign students, whom we need).

Mistigri · 17/03/2015 20:01

One positive benefit of Britain leaving the EU would be that all the sponging Brits in France would get put on the first ferry home. France would be a much better place without them.

(Of course leaving the EU would be a terrible decision in all other respects.)

BIWI · 17/03/2015 20:02

Can you give me figures, please, to prove the assertion that immigration drives down wages?

JeanneTheRabidFeminist · 17/03/2015 20:03

(Oh, and I won't trouble you with the fact that England depended on immigrants during the fourteenth century, either ...).

alexpolistigers · 17/03/2015 20:07

Put it this way, Jeanne. I challenge you to point to a period in British history when it was completely sealed off and not receiving any immigrants.

JeanneTheRabidFeminist · 17/03/2015 20:10

Indeed.

AllTheMadmen · 17/03/2015 20:11

My family is full of European Mix, Italian, Polish, German, and all of us agree there is too much immigration and it needs controlling.

engeika · 17/03/2015 20:11

BIWI - most people on MN don't have access to figures and when they do link to reports or news articles these are often rubbished. I don't know of any research that I could point to at the moment - but that applies to most points made on MN.

Generally if there are lots of people who can do a job the price goes down - eg leaflet deliverers. If there are very few who can do it the price goes up.

trufflesnout · 17/03/2015 20:13

News articles are rubbished because they are journalistic, not academic, which means they cherry-pick or misrepresent information to suit a story.

If people on MN can't reference the facts that back up their opinions, why should their opinions hold any weight?

Gardav · 17/03/2015 20:15

QueenOfSouthLondon Tue 17-Mar-15 19:15:52
And I never said I was voting ukip I just said their immigration policy makes sense.

There may be a little bit of sense in that one aspect of their policy but the rest of their policies are gobbledy gook and are changed at the drop of a hat.

The tories and labour will not get my vote so a protest vote is the way to go but definitely not UKIP.

Stratter5 · 17/03/2015 20:15

Well, this is all going swimmingly Grin

JeanneTheRabidFeminist · 17/03/2015 20:15

If the reports or news articles stood up to criticism, they wouldn't get 'rubbished', would they?

If you're not basing opinion on figures, surely, anyone whose grasp of economics is marginally more complicated will simply not agree with you?

AllTheMadmen · 17/03/2015 20:15

Never has there been so much immigration than in the past decade. Its un unprecedented, so calling on Old and probably racist comments about past waves of immigration that were new ie from India/Jamaica is not relevant to what we are seeing today.

Back then it was race issues, today its simply volume issues.

An uncontrollable volume of people coming to live here, with huge impacts on every service from jobs, housing to schools and NHS.

JeanneTheRabidFeminist · 17/03/2015 20:17

How do you know that, allthe?

I suspect that, taking the size of the population into account, we've seen far greater net immigration at several points in the past. I could be wrong, of course, but your statement is falsifiable simply because we don't have the data for all past numbers of immigrants. It's something that wasn't recorded numerically at all times in the past.

What we can measure is what would happen if we lost our immigrants. The NHS and HE would fall over tomorrow.

engeika · 17/03/2015 20:18

I agree - if someone is making an academic point or writing a buisness report yes, they should back up the facts.

This is a forum and anecdotal evidence is fine in most cases - unless someone wants to challenge it. There are hundreds of threads on here every week which rely on experience or anecdote to back up the opinions. They are not automatically dismissed.

BIWI · 17/03/2015 20:18

BIWI - most people on MN don't have access to figures and when they do link to reports or news articles these are often rubbished. I don't know of any research that I could point to at the moment - but that applies to most points made on MN.

Then posters have to acknowledge that they are posting opinion and not fact

Sometimes I think people think these are one and the same.

It would be great to be able to have a sensible debate about some of the issues that get talked about here. I'm genuinely interested in this as an issue, and would love people who argue about it to be able to support the assertions that they make.

But they can't, can they? Which means that it's just prejudiced opinion.

Which is what parties like UKIP thrive on.

JeanneTheRabidFeminist · 17/03/2015 20:19

But people do want to challenge it, clearly. Why do you think they don't?

BIWI · 17/03/2015 20:19

Figures to back this up, AllTheMadmen?

BIWI · 17/03/2015 20:20

This is a forum and anecdotal evidence is fine in most cases - unless someone wants to challenge it. There are hundreds of threads on here every week which rely on experience or anecdote to back up the opinions. They are not automatically dismissed.

No, absolutely not. You can't make assertions about issues as politically charged as immigration without being prepared to back them up.

Lweji · 17/03/2015 20:21

In any case, if UKIP does ever win in the UK, do please leave the EU. I wouldn't want to live there, but would welcome any refugees.