had a huge falling out with a friend over mothers day :(

[NobodyLivesHere]

I am ready to be told I am being unreasonable, although I cant help how I feel.
Back story- friends mother died just over a year ago after a short illness. They'd had a very good relationship and naturally she misses her a lot.
My own mother and I have a hugely difficult relationship, she has severe mental illness that impacted my childhood and adolesecense a lot, have had periods of years of looking after her and my siblings and since I left home have had long periods of no contact and lots of issues.
So, another friend posts a message on a Facebook group we all use asking what we were getting our mothers for mothers day, my reply was 'fuck all' the friend then posts saying 'you should cherish your mother, however much she gets to you shes the only one you have etc etc' I replied with a message along the lines of I appreciate why you say this, but it's not that easy for all of us and I wouldn't expect her to understand because she was lucky enough to have a good relationship with hers.
She went nuts and said I was horrible and insensitive to say she was lucky, that her mother was dead and that was worse than anything else. I disagreed that it was worse. Then she and a few others said I was a cow.
Was I really so unreasonable or wrong to say what I did? I obviously didn't mean she was 'lucky' her mum died, just that she'd had years of good times to look back on which some dont have. Others said I should have just ignored her initial reply as she is still grieving, but does her grief 'trump' my years of upset and sadness so much that I should just not defend my point of view?

'The fact that this took place on FB is a red herring. This is a group of friends. If this conversation had taken place in one of their houses or in a pub, OP would have chucked in her "fuck all" just the same.'

Really? I wouldn't have, if I knew my friend's mother was dead. Why? Because I understand that grieving is individual. It doesn't follow a time scale.

expat - yes, if a group of friends were in the pub and one asked what everyone was doing for Mothering Sunday, I could quite imagine someone in the OPs shoes just throwing in a casual "fuck all". Would it have led to the same result? Dunno. Possibly, yes, possibly no. There is no rule to say person A is going to ask a question but only persons C, D and E can answer it. You say you wouldn't have answered if you knew your friend's mother was dead. Which suggests you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. THAT, I suggest, was the mistake, rather than the OP's response.

But then, how long should one hold one's tongue and not mention a subject that someone might find upsetting?

Wow- lots of responses!
After a few days thought, I've come to the conclusion the reason I'm so upset is as one poster said it feels like they've no empathy/sympathy/compassion for my situation. They all had nice mothers/upbringings and thinking on it this isn't the first occasion where they've belittled it. When I got married my mother wasnt there. There was a conversation where I was asked why, 'I know you don't get on, but you could have asked her'. I get they don't understand it, but they know enough that they should at least be able to try. So Ive decided to cut contact from this group. I have been, I feel, a very good friend to bereaved friend and been there for her.
My fuck all was not goady, and swearing is very normal for us. So that isn't the issue, but I concede I shouldn't have got sucked in when the 'cherish' comment came up. I was/am hurt by it so I did. I think taking a step back from the friendship is best.

Shame

Read through the last couple of pages.
A lot being made of my 'fuck all'. I think, without knowing this group of mates (there are 11 of us btw) it might be easy to see that comment as provocative or being delibrately putting a downer on things, but it really was not intended that way nor would most of them take it that way. Its how we are, it's our 'way' with each other, we are not generally fluffy heart type people. It's laced with black humour generally. I don't know how else to describe it. Clearly bereaved friend was offended by it though, which I guess is her prerogative. No one else was up til that point.

Nobody might be best to take a bit of time off from them. I've recently done it with some old school friends. I was getting less from the friendship and tbh I feel relieved and more relaxed now. Your relationship or lack of, with your mother is something that affects you and true friends will accept this even if they don't understand it!

"but it really was not intended that way nor would most of them take it that way"

But it seems to have been taken that way if they all jumped on you & couldn't see your point at all.

Difficult one - its a shame that you are taking a step back from your friends over a facebook spat though. When written down I think things look worse than they are, i.e. if you'd made that Fuck all comment in person with your group of friends it probably would have been said quietly with a wry sort of smile/grimace on your face where everyone would have understood and your body language would have spoken a thousand words as well. Written down it looks harsh, however your mistake I feel was replying to the 'cherish' comments.

I understand that you feel that you have it 'worse' somehow as your own Mum had mental health problems which impacted your childhood and beyond however your friend is grieving for her mother and for her she cannot conceive of anything worse so you should have cut her some slack. And I say this as someone who spent a large chunk of Sunday crying in the bathroom as this was my first Mothers day since my Mum died - so I guess I am not the most impartial of posters.

I didn't think it was the 'fuck all' comment that they did jump on the OP for.

I thought it was the later comment, that her friend had been lucky to have a good relationship with her mum, something the OP feels she hasn't been so lucky as to have, and the argument between the OP and the bereaved friend that followed from that point, that had the other friends join in and jump on the OP.

"that her mother was dead and that was worse than anything else. I disagreed that it was worse."

This is what the Op was rounded on for by her friends I should imagine.

But it could have been a build up of everything i guess.

I feel for you OP.
I think this is a commo scenario tbh. Some peopl do make things all abot them and can be niave and somewhat smug about family relationships.
I expect she simply doesnt appreciate the depth of the impact on a person who has a difficult relationship with their mother.
She believes she holds the "trump card" of pain as she is breftof her won mother whereas you still "have yours"
The death of a mother is huge. And its not something most people are ever ready for. So its possibly the reason that people can be. A bit "you dn't know what its like" about it. But the difficulties faced by someone in your position are often minimised and underestimated.

As a person with a shit relationship with my dad who then died, I feel qualified to comment on this thread.

OP I do understand where you are coming from. Your friend is unable to understand what it is like to have shit parents and her comments to you were insensitive.

However when my dad died I was surprised how much it affected me, it's not something I could really put into words. I was fairly put out when my friend who had a dead father told me my grief was not as bad as hers as she had a good relationship with her dad so had more to miss. Competitive grief is not helpful.

Like previous posters have suggested, I would suggest you take this of FB, as this is not an appropriate platform for you to have these kinds of discussions. I do think your friend owes you an apology, but I also think you owe her an apology too, and as the only behaviour you can control is your own, you may like to consider apologising to her once you have had some time to reflect, if the relationship is important to you and something you think worth preserving. If you can't speak in person I'd suggest a phone call as being the next best thing. Good luck!

"that her mother was dead and that was worse than anything else. I disagreed that it was worse."

"This is what the Op was rounded on for by her friends I should imagine."

That's what I was thinking of too, but the bit you quoted before - "but it really was not intended that way nor would most of them take it that way" - was about the original "fuck all" comment, and the OP says that they all use that kind of language in the group and it's not usually an issue.

I don't think any of the friends really objected to what the OP said until after the bereaved lady told the OP to cherish her mother. And she probably would have said that same thing even if the OP had said "I'm not getting her anything" rather than "fuck all" because it seems to have been the lack of cherishing that was her problem rather than the language used to express it.

That was my interpretation anyway, that the bereaved friend objected to the OP not cherishing her mother, the OP trying to explain that it's hard to understand when you've been lucky enough to always have a good relationship, and everyone else seeing the word 'lucky' and jumping in then.

If they have previous form for "not getting it" where your lack of relationship is concerned, then it's not really that surprising (albeit disappointing) that they continue to bang the "mothers are everything!" drum, regardless of your experience.

To me, it demonstrates a typical type of small-mindedness, an inability to see outside of their own personal experience to understand how someone else's experience could be completely different to theirs or their family's - they won't ever "get it" because they have no ability to empathise.

So from that point of view, you deciding to give it a rest with them all is probably a good idea for you - because they're never going to get it, nor be supportive to you in your situation with your mother. They're always going to wonder why you can't "put it all behind you", "be the bigger person", suck it up "because she's your mother, and you only get one".

I've been in a similar position with my brother. People who have no family problems have no understanding or comprehension at all that we have no wish to ever see each other again. I did invite him to my wedding but only because it would have completely broken my mum's heart if I didn't - but if my parents hadn't been around, he wouldn't have got a look in (and wouldn't have come even if I had "been the bigger person").

I don't subscribe to the whole "blood is thicker than water" bollocks - some people's family members are completely shit, and there is no reason why you should continue to subject yourself to their shittery, just because some other people say "but they're Faaaaammmlly, you HAVE to".

Get some better friends.

ThumbWitches I agree about the way other people keep insisting "they're family" when you have a difficult relationship with a family member.

If I'd had a stranger following me whenever I went out, or parking outside my house to watch me for hours on end, or calling me twenty times an hour to force me to talk to them, or ordering me to do as they said because they had taken things of mine they wouldn't give back until I did as I was told, or sending a lot of unwanted letters and texts, or lying about me to other people so they sent me abusive messages or argued with me, or taking things from my children's grave, and everything else they've done over the years, they'd be telling me to call the police to get them locked up.

But because the people who did all this happen to be my DH's parents, it's all "but that's just what they're like, why are you being so difficult about it? You're breaking up the family."

I agree with you, if someone is making your life unhappy just by being in it, there's nothing wrong with distancing yourself. It's a shame the OP's friends can't see that her experience is very different from theirs and that her mother won't improve if the OP just tries harder. I said upthread that I feel this attitude of "you have to, it's family" is basically blaming the victim for not being better and trying harder. When in a relationship like this, nothing is actually good enough. The more you try, the more you have demanded from you, and you still get treated just as badly.