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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

had a huge falling out with a friend over mothers day :(

215 replies

NobodyLivesHere · 14/03/2015 12:24

I am ready to be told I am being unreasonable, although I cant help how I feel.
Back story- friends mother died just over a year ago after a short illness. They'd had a very good relationship and naturally she misses her a lot.
My own mother and I have a hugely difficult relationship, she has severe mental illness that impacted my childhood and adolesecense a lot, have had periods of years of looking after her and my siblings and since I left home have had long periods of no contact and lots of issues.
So, another friend posts a message on a Facebook group we all use asking what we were getting our mothers for mothers day, my reply was 'fuck all' the friend then posts saying 'you should cherish your mother, however much she gets to you shes the only one you have etc etc' I replied with a message along the lines of I appreciate why you say this, but it's not that easy for all of us and I wouldn't expect her to understand because she was lucky enough to have a good relationship with hers.
She went nuts and said I was horrible and insensitive to say she was lucky, that her mother was dead and that was worse than anything else. I disagreed that it was worse. Then she and a few others said I was a cow.
Was I really so unreasonable or wrong to say what I did? I obviously didn't mean she was 'lucky' her mum died, just that she'd had years of good times to look back on which some dont have. Others said I should have just ignored her initial reply as she is still grieving, but does her grief 'trump' my years of upset and sadness so much that I should just not defend my point of view?

OP posts:
ClockwiseCat · 14/03/2015 14:02

It does all sound very dramatic and to be blunt I think both of you were reaching out, hoping for sympathetic responses, it's just that the group (rightly or wrongly) decided that she was more worthy of sympathy. I think these are very complex issues, too complex for thrashing out on a FB group.

I like FB a lot, use it to keep in touch with old friends who live overseas but it does create particular problems, usually when people are totally me-gocentric. I saw a post recently from a childless woman I know slagging off all the people on her timeline who whinge about their sleepless nights 'even joking'. And I understand her sadness but I also understand the misery of sleepless nights and have laughed in sympathy with the middle of the night, frazzle-eyed posts. No one is right or wrong. We all use FB in different ways for different reasons but it isn't as nuanced as talking face to face and so it's easy to cause upset without meaning to.

sunbathe · 14/03/2015 14:05

There's just such a gulf between those who have/had good mothers and those who haven't.

I haven't seen my mum since Christmas, she's had a card in the post for Mother's Day and I never tell her I love her. Because I don't.

Many , many people would not be able to understand that, or even want to try.

Like I said, such a gulf.

turquoiseamethyst · 14/03/2015 14:06

Can I just put something in here which may well be a bit controversial - but having a crap mother, abusive mother, horrible mother, is NOT the same as having a dead mother.

The above also applies to fathers.

In all honesty, in adulthood my dad was rubbish. He fell to pieces after my mum died and didn't know how to be a dad or indeed a person, really. I left my home and husband in 2011 and went to his home, sobbing and frightened. He said "I'm going on holiday!"

Hmm Grin

Tragically, whilst on holiday he died (I felt and still feel he was probably a lot more worried about me and his grandson than he let on and this contributed - caused? - his death but anyway) - and after being so distant and so uncaring and cold for years I didn't think I'd care.

Oh my word, how wrong I was. Every memory - good and bad - haunted me. I went through his things and "saw" them through different eyes. I realised he'd been trapped in abusive relationships too. I grieved his death but also his life that could now never be put right.

My heart goes out to all of you with difficult parents but wishing them dead won't mean the grief will end. It just keeps coming back in new and different ways for a long time.

pictish · 14/03/2015 14:12

As someone who has lost my own mother after a short illness and with whom I had a close and loving relationship, I don't think you're being unreasonable OP.
I think what you were saying was perfectly clear and not in the least bit offensive or insensitive...just frank. Your friend sounds like a drama llama.

ragged · 14/03/2015 14:13

YANBU My mother died not long back. I miss her & I loved her but her death was still a relief, we didn't get along. The bereaved person projected her issues onto you in telling you how to feel, not nice.

pictish · 14/03/2015 14:19

And she knew fine you weren't saying she was lucky because her mum was dead. I understood the point you were trying to make with no difficulty, so I assume that she, as your long standing friend, got it as well.
It sounds like a case of "but my mum's dead, so you're not allowed to disagree with me" which was petulant and manipulative of her. And worked.

I despise such tactics being employed to 'win'.

ChristyMooreRocks · 14/03/2015 14:26

I really don't think YABU to feel the way you do about the whole thing, but I think that making such a public comment about your friend being 'lucky' was out of line really given the circumstances and I agree with everyone else hat you should have just said nothing.

JaneCollege · 14/03/2015 14:26

Hi NobodyLivesHere, I feel your pain! You said 'fuck all' and that's an honest response- when the mother/daughter relationship deviates so far from the ideal there can be a weird shame and resentment that lives on in its place- and if you can't express that to friends, well!...

And other people joined in to call you a cow- ouch! It's like school!

I think I'm similar to your friend around the loss of my dad- I've had plenty of days of resentful feelings along the lines of 'you're lucky/it's not fair/poor me- my pain is bigger!' I think at my worst I even wished (in the beginning) my closest friend to have some kind of comparable loss, only because that level of grief is so lonely and you want to share it but often can't. Deep down I know it's wrong though and hopefully your friend does too- more importantly carrying on with resentment causes a deeper sense of separation when really what we need is to feel close and connected.

I'm like you in that I can't stand passive aggression and have tended to stand my ground- in the last six months (after upsetting my dearest friend) I'm practising let things slide a bit- and envy those that can do so naturally.

You're not a cow! You weren't right or wrong. You might do things differently next time- live and learn eh! I'd light a candle and send her some love or some hippy shit like that. Send some to yourself while you're at it.

diddl · 14/03/2015 14:27

I'm not sure that I've read the OP correctly.

You have a difficult relationship with your mum & didn't have a good childhood, & therefore you are getting her nothing for MD?

If that's how it read to your friend I can see how it would upset her.

that you still have a mum, & choose to get nothing.

littlemslazybones · 14/03/2015 14:29

Actually Turquoise one day my mother will die and, if I am lucky enough to outlive her, I will breathe a sigh of relief.

I also have a dead Dad who I adored. So I think I have enough scope of experience to say that for me, I rather have a dead good mum. So go take your sentimentalised generalisations and go whistle.

Lovemylittlebear · 14/03/2015 14:31

It's probably not too helpful to debate who was right or wrong...because it depends on the perspective you take. Although I see both sides...you have had a shit deal and were airing your views. Maybe it would be helpful to see whether you want to stay friends with your friend? Whether you care about how she is feeling? And whether it's important to you that she can see where you were coming from or if you would be prepared to move on if she can't? Then if you do want to save the friendship I would apologise for the way the message was conveyed and if it caused more upset to her at an awful time...but the message is still the same in that from your point of view you would have preferred to have had a wonderful mum and wonderful memories than shitty memories and draw a line under it. Hope you manage to resolve things. X

turquoiseamethyst · 14/03/2015 14:32

I have reported that post littlems because I think it is absolutely vile, uncalled for and beyond rude.

Obviously I have no objections to and am interested in other people's experiences of grief but to describe my post as a "sentimentalised generalisation" when I was describing my own emotions at a difficult time is just needlessly unpleasant.

Tutt · 14/03/2015 14:34

I agree with the above, in her eyes you have a choice, that choice has been taken away from her and that impacts on the grief.

I understand that you just want a lovely Mum and haven't got there but you do seem a tad unthinking/unkind with your comment back to her.

CocobearSqueeze · 14/03/2015 14:34

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

WayfaringStranger · 14/03/2015 14:36

I agree wholeheartedly with you turquoise and actually, I thought your words were very true and helpful.

turquoiseamethyst · 14/03/2015 14:43

Why thank you :) Of course, it doesn't minimise or dismiss the pain a toxic relationship causes - and others should not read it like that. But there is a difference between 'I have no relationship with my mother as she is dead' and 'because she is toxic'

One isn't worse. Just different.

pictish · 14/03/2015 14:44

I think telling someone that they ought to be sentimental over and grateful for a parent who made their childhood miserable is bloody arrogant, and would have got my back up too.

As I say, my lovely mum died from a particularly aggressive form of cancer when I was 30. Diagnosis to death in seven weeks. I was absolutely devastated by her loss.

I wouldn't presume to tell someone who has not been as LUCKY as me with their own mum, how to feel about her. It takes all sorts, and it's not all about me.

IreneA78 · 14/03/2015 14:49

The post was about celebrating mothers day, and therefore mothers.
You kinda pissed on that and made it all about you.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 14/03/2015 14:52

Turquoise - to be fair, while most of your post was indeed personal, the last bit was a generalisation.

how wrong I was. Every memory - good and bad - haunted me. I went through his things and "saw" them through different eyes. I realised he'd been trapped in abusive relationships too. I grieved his death but also his life that could now never be put right. - entirely personal to you and that's fine.

... but wishing them dead won't mean the grief will end. It just keeps coming back in new and different ways for a long time. - massive generalisation. This is how YOU feel, not how everyone will feel. Some people will just feel relief; and that is fine for them.

OnIlkelyMoorBahtat · 14/03/2015 14:55

I don't think you did anything wrong either OP. I would have thought the 'what are you getting your mum for Mother's Day?' question would have been more likely to have saddened the bereaved woman than someone who doesn't have a good relationship with their own mum saying they're not getting them anything, to be honest. My lovely mother died 2 weeks after her cancer diagnosis, 'shock' doesn't begin to describe it, and I would never have dreamed of taking it upon myself to start policing how other people feel about their relationships with their own family.

pictish · 14/03/2015 14:57

Have to say that's sort of true too. The 'fuck all' response was probably a bit of a raincloud overshadowing the light tone of the initial enquiry.
There's a time and a place OP, and I'm not sure that was it.

Doesn't excuse your friend sweeping in in the tragic heroine dress though. You have differing experiences, and I feel that you validated her, but she didn't show you the same courtesy in return.

AliceLidlLovesWindlePoons · 14/03/2015 15:00

OP I don't think you are being unreasonable.

I'm not well at the moment, I'm struggling to concentrate to get my words out right.

But to me telling you that should feel lucky or be grateful for your mother when she knows you have had years of struggles, a childhood that was badly affected by your mother, and times of no contact etc, is wrong.

It's coming across to me as victim blaming in a way, like saying you haven't tried hard enough to make your relationship with your mother work, or you should be kinder because then your mother might be nicer, even as your mother puts you through hell.

Sometimes nothing you do is good enough, and sometimes all you can do is distance yourself or walk away entirely to protect yourself. If you have that kind of relationship, there is no lucky, there is no cherish.

And as a PP has said, even following a loss of a bad parent, the nature of the difficult relationship can leave you feeling worse rather than better. Comments like "you only have one mother so cherish her" do not help with those kind of feelings in a dysfunctional relationship which is not your fault.

You were the child in this relationship, your mother set the tone of it before you were old enough to have a chance to know any differently. I'm not saying she could help that any more than you could if she had mental health issues, but she was the adult and you were the child, so you were entirely blameless regardless of how much she could or could not help what went on.

And by the time you are an adult, the relationship is so deeply ingrained that you still wouldn't be able to change anything, especially if her issues are still ongoing and still making her a difficult person to be with.

DH's parents were very emotionally manipulative and controlling, even when he was a very young child. As a result they can still reduce him to little boy status just by ringing his phone or sending a message. He doesn't even have to speak to them, just knowing they are at the other end of the call is enough to do the damage. He was frequently told that saying no to his mother would mean he was responsible for her having a breakdown and everyone would blame him.

His mother has been in touch today, basically ordering him to send her "a lovely text message tomorrow" because she wants one to keep and show everybody. She's told him exactly what she wants him to say in this message, singing her praises as a fantastic mum Hmm

In 2007 we lost two babies. Our first was stillborn, shortly before Mother's day. MIL had lost her mother the previous year and this was her first Mother's day without her. The whole family was told that the day must not be acknowledged in any way as MIL would find it too upsetting.

That was fine by us. We were grieving for our baby, who we buried four days before Mothers day.

On the day, FIL rang absolutely raging at DH because he hadn't sent his mother a card. MIL was apparently sobbing uncontrollably because none of her four children loved her anymore. DH pointed out MIL's request not to do anything to mark the day and FIL said she had changed her mind and we should have known how important it was to MIL to get cards and presents. DH pointed out it was my first Mother's day without our baby, when it should have been enjoying it as our first as new parents. We were told that they had forgotten all about that, but it wasn't the same, and that we had ruined MIL's day.

They seem to forget they ruined our son's funeral, throwing a tantrum because DH sounded miserable on the phone when MIL rang him the night before. I'm not sure how they expected him to sound the night before he buried his child.

You don't cherish this kind of person, or count yourself lucky that you have them in your life.

base9 · 14/03/2015 15:06

I don't think you were insensitive, op. And I think she should apologise to you. Her comment about how you should be grateful was indeed insensitive.

MargotLovedTom · 14/03/2015 15:06

I think YANBU OP. Also I think the person who started the chat in the first place about what you're all getting your mothers for MD was being a bit thoughtless. One of the group is struggling with grieving her mum, and another is struggling with the legacy of a terrible mother? Probably best to not bring it up to be honest!

pictish · 14/03/2015 15:11

Margot I disagree. You can't hope to tailor everything you say or do to accommodate everyone you've ever met who has endured a sad event in their life. Life goes on.