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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think DP's ex is bu?

222 replies

ApignamedJasper · 09/03/2015 10:34

DP's ex and her boyfriend have booked a v. expensive 2 week holiday around easter holidays.

She is expecting DP to take 2 weeks off work so he can look after their DS so she she can go on holiday.

DP is self employed so doesn't get any holiday pay etc and if he doesn't work for 2 weeks he won't get any money! Dp has said he will have ds as normal on the weekends but for the rest of the time she will have to make other arrangements.

She has also said doesn't want ds staying at our place overnight (we have just moved) but then wants him to stay with us for 2 weeks?

I thought I might be a bit close to the situation so I'm wondering if Aibu or if she is for expecting DP to lose 2 weeks of pay so she can go on holiday!

OP posts:
Original poster
ApignamedJasper · 09/03/2015 13:20

Aye, she can work she just chooses not to. Nothing wrong with that by the way but I do find it odd when she moans she doesn't have any money and has free childcare on hand in form of grandparents so she easily could.

OP posts:
MaryWestmacott · 09/03/2015 13:21

I would suggest a compromise, for the week he's in school, your DP's ex arranges and pays for breakfast and afterschool clubs or a local childminder, accepting that DSS will stay with you at your home overnight.

For the week he's on school holidays, can you work out how many days DP can afford not to work, book those off and then pay for holiday camps/clubs for those days? (there are a lot of those run by councils, have a look at your local leisure centre or search for 'holiday clubs easter [town name]' and see what there's going on your DSS could do).

I'm a SAHM, if I wanted to go away and DH couldn't just take the time off work, we'd have to arrange wrap around care to enable DH to work - few employed people could book the school holidays off at this short a notice even if they have the holiday allowance, as it is, my DH can only get 3 days off beyond the bank holidays because there's so many parents in his office all fighting for the same time, and he had to book that in January to get it. 3 weeks before hand isn't really reasonable to assume someone can get time off, self employed or not.

tabulahrasa · 09/03/2015 13:22

"But also wanted to add - I always find it peculiar when people say that they (or more usually) their DH/DP can't take time off because they're self-employed and will 'lose money'. If you're on a salary, you're not paid to be on annual leave, you're paid for the 48 weeks or whatever that you work and your employer for everyone's convenience pays that monthly rather than adjusting it every month for annual leave taken. if you're self-employed, you have to do that adjusting yourself but you should really be factoring in a suitable amount of holiday time all year round, it shouldn't come as a nasty surprise."

The problem with time off and being self-employed is that firstly income isn't regular (depending on the nature of the business) customers can often appear in fits and starts and while yes ideally you build up a buffer to cover that, but sometimes it just isn't possible. Also having done a job for a customer doesn't actually guarantee payment within a set time, it's surprisingly often that people wait until you're at the point of threatening debt recovery processes to pay and some try not to pay at all or not to pay the full amount.

Also with many self-employed people, they can't tell people to wait for 2 weeks and expect to keep that customer, so you lose repeat customers and potential new ones as there's no-one to cover you.

You can with some businesses pay someone to cover you, but that's another pretty big outgoing and you run the risk of customers being unhappy with their performance and losing them anyway or being too happy with them and losing them that way.

TheJiminyConjecture · 09/03/2015 13:22

Maybe he should think of this as his contribution to the childcare he'd need to pay for of he lived with his DS full time

How does that work?

If they were together and the mum was a sahm then he'd not pay childcare. If mum worked then the child care comes from the family pot. Assuming he pays cm then he's contributing to the pot. The fact that she doesn't work means that no childcare is paid so there is more money for other things.

MaryWestmacott · 09/03/2015 13:26

oh just seen the grandparents live with ex, would they be prepared to do before and afterschool care? If you/DP dropped your DSS off every morning at 8, picked up at 5/6pm, would they do the school run and look after him until you/DP could pick him up? That's not asking them to do the whole lot, but just the wrap around.

Lots of families have both parents working and manage to make childcare arrangements, taking time off is not the only solution. It would be lovely for your DSS to have so much time with his Dad and you if you can find a way to manage the before and afterschool care - see this as a great opportunity for you!

Original poster
ApignamedJasper · 09/03/2015 13:32

Unfortunately, due to the distances involved, he couldn't drop Dss at school and make it back in time for work. GP leaves for work at 7 so is not there in the mornings (I think, I'm not 100% on the specifics). Also it would cost him about half of what he earns per day in fuel to do all the picking up/dropping off, I can't help there as I don't drive and will be working very long hours anyway (think 9am-10pm).

OP posts:
King1982 · 09/03/2015 13:32

OP will your DP not save money on maintenance payments for those two weeks

Original poster
ApignamedJasper · 09/03/2015 13:41

I think that she expects him to pay the maintainance regardless King, also what he pays is less than he earns so it would still cost him. Also he may lose customers, if he can't work for those 2 weeks they may just go elsewhere.

OP posts:
needaholidaynow · 09/03/2015 13:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AyeAmarok · 09/03/2015 13:49

Conjecture because if they were still together and he was supporting her as a SAHM then it would cost him a lot more. He's saving the cost of childcare as she's at home.

She maybe can't afford to work as childcare is prohibitively expensive, OP had just said the GP works so can't provide free childcare (which is ridiculous to suggest that they'd want to, full time).

The ex also can't afford her own home so lives with her parents.

I'm just saying there are two sides.

clam · 09/03/2015 13:54

I still think people are letting the ex off the hook here. She's booked a "very expensive" holiday, and taken it during term-time as it's cheaper. How about she chooses a slightly less-expensive holiday during school holidays (like the rest of us have to do) and takes her son along too.

I've seen posters/exes on here get annihilated for doing much less than this on the holiday front.

catsmother · 09/03/2015 13:55

Tabula explained the difficulties of setting money aside when you're self employed very well, but as the OP said her DP is in effect on minimum wage and that this is the only sort of work he can get at the moment I also got the impression that he hadn't been self employed very long. It's very common for new businesses to require a lot of hours while they're establishing themselves and unfortunately, many people find they have to forego time off for quite some time. That's obviously not ideal especially when you have children and can be a strain for the other parent - separated or not - who has to pick up the slack. However, the alternative - not earning at all - is surely worse ?

Having said that, regardless of how long the business has been going - and hopefully his rate will improve over time to allow him more flexibility - it should surely be clear to most people that saving anything out of minimum wage for whatever reason is pretty impossible ? But again - if the long term goal is for him to build something worthwhile up that must be better for his child going forward, rather than him just shrugging and making no effort to be gainfully employed at all ?

StarOnTheTree · 09/03/2015 14:02

I'm self employed single parent and I work around available childcare in the school holidays. I also plan my work so I can do as much as possible at home during those weeks. Yes I lose work because I'm not 100% available during the school holidays but it's just what I have to do as a parent.

Your DP's ex should have communicated with him and arranged something that suited both parents. But my ex point blank refuses to have the DC at any time that doesn't suit him so maybe the ex has tried to discuss your DP having his son for a couple of weeks and got nowhere. Being self employed is not a good enough reason for your DP not to do his share of the parenting.

worridmum · 09/03/2015 14:59

god the hypocrites on this thread our astounding imange if the situation was revesred eg if they were still a couple and the bloke TOLD wife not asked that he was buggering off for 2 weeks and that she now had to sort out childcare and or not work for 2 weeks so he could swan off to do what ever he wants would be meet with resounding calls of him being a twat etc but because its the mum saying it to an EX people are latching on there shitty EXs and luppying them all the same.

If i was the dad i would point blank refuse to take the son for the first week fuck the mothers holiday if she did not have the curtisy of actully asking me/ arranging with me in advance (3 weeks is NOT enough time with the vast majority of employers as the majority ask for double the time off so basically would need 1 months notice to get annaul leave)

tbh I would actully be totally spiteful and refuse to have him for the first week when he needs to get to school but possibly compromise the second week as i could have the required notice to work but I would make sure the mother sorted childcare for the first week or i would actully report her for child abandonment if she didnt arrange childcare for the first week. Just to see how she would like those apples as that sort of action is one of the best ways to get main residency stripped from her

AyeAmarok · 09/03/2015 15:13

worrid You would not do yourself any favours with anyone doing that. It's not the child's fault and he shouldn't be used as a pawn.

The mother looks after him every day, bar daytime hours 6days per month. I don't think the dad can complain about having to look after his own son for two weeks. He's not the only parent who had to take an unpaid holiday, sounds like he's got away lightly so far.

juliej75 · 09/03/2015 15:28

Sorry - "got away lightly"??? This dad WANTS more access. He was being REFUSED overnights until it suited the mum. If she's going to move the goalposts suddenly, she needs to give reasonable notice for him to make different arrangements.

Also, my DH uses all his annual leave to spend with DSS. As I do with my children. But we have enough notice that we can do nice things with them too - during holidays.

What if this mum asked for this to happen a couple of times a year? The dad could spend all his annual leave looking after the child during term-time and never get to go on holiday with his child himself.

Presumably, the mum never allowed overnights before because it keeps the CM at the maximum. If she wants that, despite dad actually having contact for the part of the day which costs money, then surely she has to accept that he needs to work and not cancel on clients at short notice so she can go on cheaper holidays.

AyeAmarok · 09/03/2015 15:34

Okay, I think there is probably waaaaay too much projecting going on here. The OP hasn't did what the CM arrangements are, just as often self-employed NRPs don't pay as much as they should.

I'd like to hear the Ex's side too. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Changeofscenery34 · 09/03/2015 16:00

First of all I think ex is ur in not giving enough notice to have dss I do however think that your dp is ur not to take her up on the offer.

I have been in this situation an believe me it is not nice I gave me ex 3 months notice asking if he would have the dcs while I'm away he point blank refused saying he couldn't get the time off work,he isn't self employed so has annual leave.
I also work so when the dcs have holidays/sick I have to take time off work it is the responsibility of both parents wether they live together or not to take time off accordingly what is the point of having two parents if one does everything.

For those pp saying why is she going on holiday without her dsaying out she is some evil woman Is ridiculous we all deserve a break especially when you're child only spends a limited time with his father I personnally cannot wait to go away on my own my dcs will not be losing out as we have already been on a family holiday and will be going on another in the summer.

MaryWestmacott · 09/03/2015 16:03

Right, so where you live is too far away to do the school run, then you can't do it during school term time. If she can move it to just being the week during the school holidays, I'd suck up the short notice and look at using a holiday club near your house for the week, but then not paying maintenance for that week. But no, you can't make before and after school care work, he can't take the time off, so no, they can't have a holiday that week unless she can make other arrangments. Tough really - you can't do term time care.

It's not the same as if he lived with DSS, if he has custody, then your DSS would be in a school near your house and would be possible to use childcare.

Sweetpea01 · 09/03/2015 16:04

The real situation is this little boy requires care for a two week period.

His mother may be unreasonable in her actions of booking this holiday and his father may be reasonable feeling extremely put out by the mother's actions. It's certainly not something I would do.

However if this child's mother goes on holiday, then fair or not I'm afraid dad will just have to make arrangements to have him. If one parent is unavailable (for whatever reason) the care falls to the other parent.

It would be extremely unreasonable of dad to refuse to have his son. Arrange his own childcare for this time? Great. But he shouldn't just point blank say no and believe that mother/grandparents etc are solely responsible for his child before he himself is.

Work doesn't even come into it I'm afraid, a parent's responsibility does not alter due to their work status.

MythicalKings · 09/03/2015 16:07

However if this child's mother goes on holiday, then fair or not I'm afraid dad will just have to make arrangements to have him. If one parent is unavailable (for whatever reason) the care falls to the other parent.

No it doesn't. That's ridiculous. Parents can't go round making arrangements to be away and just expect the other parent to suck it up. It's unreasonable and selfish.

Sweetpea01 · 09/03/2015 16:08

It is selfish I agree, but if she does go anyway, where does the son go? That's my point.

SaucyJack · 09/03/2015 16:12

You could say it's just as unreasonable and selfish for the NRP to be unavailable to care for the child Mon-Fri and just expecting the RP to suck it up.

heidiwine · 09/03/2015 16:14

I honestly can't believe anyone here thinks YABU.
You are definitely definitely not.
His ex should have had the common decency to organise childcare (even if that was just making sure your DP could step in).
However this is mumsnet - and you are not the mother of the first child. In the land of mumsnet the mother of the first child is never wrong, always taken advantage of and never (ever) putting anyone other than her children first. The second wife on the other hand is always wrong and never wronged.
IMO in your situation (and we were there at half term - we got 3 weeks notice). Do what I did and back away. We roped in anyone we could think of to help us (and DP took one day off - it was all he could do given te notice) the kids had a miserable half term while their mum went to Miami for a week. Of course, I'm a second wife so in the land of mumsnet I am simply jealous of the ex. Too right I am while she's sitting on her ass in the sun I'm picking up the pieces from two disappointed children who are jealous that they're not with their mum, a full time job (with a long commute) and a pretty fraught home for 9 nights.

clam · 09/03/2015 16:17

However if this child's mother goes on holiday, then fair or not I'm afraid dad will just have to make arrangements to have him.

Nonsense. The mother has booked a two-week holiday, neglecting to have made arrangements for the care of her son. Yes, she has subsequently asked his father to have him, but if he can't (regardless of the reasons why not) then what is she planning on doing? That's negligent, in my book. No responsible parent books a trip away without having made extensive plans/arrangements to cover the care of the children if they're not coming along. (and changeofecenery, nobody has accused the ex of being "evil." although I am suggesting she is negligent).