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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a bloody cruel thing to do to a 3 year old?

305 replies

MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 10:55

I know it's none of my business but I had to get it out somewhere!

Visited PILs yesterday. SIL and BIL were there. They have a DD who is 3 nearly 4, and another DD who is 3 months old.

We were talking about Christmas, what the kids were getting, as you do. During the course of the conversation BIL said they'd had to go back to the toyshop to return one of their DD1's toys.

Long story short, Dniece1 has been quite difficult since Dniece2 arrived. She has been getting up during the night, wanting to come into her parent's bed, throwing tantrums. To be frank, it's all behaviour that I would consider par for the course when a new sibling arrives.

Anyway, DN1 asked for two things from Father Christmas this year- crayons, and a Snow Glow Elsa. She REALLY wants that Elsa doll- we took her for a day out a week ago, and she was chattering on about it then.

SIL and BIL have decided that her 'awful behaviour' over the last few months has to stop. So they've taken the doll back to the shop, and in its place, on Christmas morning, they are going to leave a letter 'from Father Christmas', telling DN1 that she is not getting the doll, because her behaviour has made FC feel she doesn't deserve it, she has to be a good girl etc etc etc.

I know lots of parents threaten FC at this time of year, but to actually do it! Especially when the child is only 3, and the behaviour is, IMO, quite natural! Surely she needs reassured, not told she is a bad girl??

SIL and BIL aren't too happy with me, because I was so shocked when they told us, I said 'isn't that a bit extreme?' before I made myself shut up.

I don't want to drip feed, but I don't always agree with SIL and BIL's parenting techniques as it is, though obviously I don't say anything as it's none of my business. They are members of a very (imo) right wing evangelical church, and it all seems to be about 'sparing the rod and spoiling the child', submission of women etc, and they are big believers in smacking/harsh punishments for children.

OP posts:
NameChange30 · 14/12/2014 11:35

It sounds like emotional and possibly physical abuse, how awful. It's good that your neice spends time with her grandparents and with you. At least she has some adults in her life treating her the way she deserves to be treated!
I don't know what else you can do really except keep being the lovely aunt and uncle that you are.
I would be tempted to buy them a book on parenting for Christmas Wink Maybe even a Christian one that recommends a kinder parenting style... If such a book exists, I have no idea! But maybe it would help them to realise that this extreme version of Christianity isn't the only one?

KatieKaye · 14/12/2014 11:35

They sound vile. What they are doing is emotional abuse, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is physical abuse going on too.

I wonder if they and their church subscribe to this barbaric method, often espoused by fundamental Christian in the US? www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25268343

Buy that little girl the doll and keep it for when you see her and she can play with it. And try to stay in her life because it sounds as if she needs you.

Well done for challenging their methods - they sound horribly complacent and totally wrong. I would find it very hard to stand by and watch them ruin this poor child's life

gymboywalton · 14/12/2014 11:37

i think it genuinely EVIL to do this to a child and will ruin all her future Christmas' . How can anybody do this to a BABY??

HappyAgainOneDay · 14/12/2014 11:38

Good God! I've just googled to find out what sort of doll this Elsa is and am astounded! Around £60 for a plastic doll with one cheap garment .....

Flowerfae · 14/12/2014 11:39

aw I think i'd buy the doll for her and say 'father christmas left this at my house for you by mistake' wouldn't be very popular for doing it but hey ;)

I think they're dealing with it in a really bad way, the baby will probably get lots of presents, and that will probably just re-inforce in her head that they baby is more loved then she is :(

Alisvolatpropiis · 14/12/2014 11:41

That is really mean.

To not give to her and not mention it is one thing but the note? Cruel.

Original poster
MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 11:42

Oh my goodness that book is disgusting!

I don't think SIL and BIL have heard of it, they would probably love it though Hmm They like everyone to know about the books they've read/theories they are taking on board.

SIL once invited me to a 'Mothering Course' in their church. The pastor's wife was running it. All about 'Raising Godly Children', 'How To Keep a Christian Marriage Alive' etc. Apparently it was packed out and they had to put on extra classes, and people were giving all this amazing feedback on how it had changed their lives etc etc. I gracefully declined.

OP posts:
Original poster
MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 11:44

Good idea re: buying DN other Elsa things. I'm going Christmas shopping on Wednesday so hope there is still some left in the Disney store! She likes those clacky princess dress up shoes, I'm sure they do an Elsa version...

OP posts:
TheFairyCaravan · 14/12/2014 11:45

There is going to be an epic tantrum on Christmas Day!

They are vile people. Truly, truly vile.

DisneyDivaWoo · 14/12/2014 11:45

Sounds like a scary cult mince!

KatieKaye · 14/12/2014 11:51

Oh, that all sounds rather creepy, Mince.

Funny how it is a "mothering course", not a parenting one. Is the church is heavily patriarchal, with women expected to stay at home and do the child rearing, with the father being the "head of his family" and the wife basically having to "please" him?

JamaicanMeEatMincePies · 14/12/2014 11:53

Can she have the doll at your ils house? If sil won't rock the boat re childcare maybe thats a way round it? Poor baby Sad

The411 · 14/12/2014 11:54

People who can do that to 3 yr old that they're meant to love unconditionally have some serious issues going on. I would worry about what other cruelty they're influcting in that child.
I also don't agree that it's none if your business. This is your and dhs niece. There's probably not much you can do to change their ways but you can look out for your niece and say something.

HamPortCourt · 14/12/2014 11:56

YANBU they sound abusive.

DN is lucky she has such a lovely aunt around to keep an eye on things/monitor in case of escalation. It is very telling that SIL doesn't want you around DN - she knows you are on to them.

Just keep supporting her so she knows she has support and love and sanity amongst her relatives.

I cannot bear it when people excuse their abusive behaviour by pinning it on religion. If BIL and SIL really wanted to solve this problem they would have told DN1 that DN2 had bought her the Elsa doll.

Original poster
MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 11:56

More or less katie. That's one of the things we had the massive row about initially. When SIL and BIL got married, SIL quit her job immediately to be a stay at home wife (this was before any children came along) and told everyone it was because she wanted to support her husband, God's role for women was in the house, and by working a woman was exposing herself to sin and neglecting her role. I took exception to this (was working shifts at a very stressful but necessary job at the time) and yeah.

I don't think any of SILs friends work either so I'm guessing that's approved of by the church

OP posts:
DisneyDivaWoo · 14/12/2014 11:59

What kind of church is this mince? Sounds bonkers

cardamomginger · 14/12/2014 12:01

'saying sorry to God'?!?!???

Fucking hell.... Sad.

This all shades of wrong on pretty much every level. This child is going to need your love and support now and for years to come. Sad.

5madthings · 14/12/2014 12:01

Oh dear God they sound horrid, that poor little girl :( please please buy her the doll if you can.

CaptainAnkles · 14/12/2014 12:02

So she has to apologise to God, and Santa is the one who has taken her toy away? Wow. They've found a way to be utter bastards and blame it on imaginary beings.
That poor poor child. She's little more than a baby herself and needs a hug, not bitchy letters from Santa.

youarekiddingme · 14/12/2014 12:02

Poor girl Sad she's not going to feel loved by her parents or Santa.

ocelot41 · 14/12/2014 12:03

Agreed. Sounds out there even in evangelical circles (was raised evangelical).

SoonToBeSix · 14/12/2014 12:03

The elsa shoes in ten disney store will be too big for a three year old.

springalong · 14/12/2014 12:04

Please don't buy the doll, even if you could get one. That is very passive aggressive behaviour. I think you could escalate the situation even more.

They sound a very extreme couple in their views, supported by this rather cult-like sounding church.

I think you need to continue to be there for your DNs and your PILs who must be quite worried. It sounds as if the "cup of tea" approach is a really good idea. Perhaps you could extend that by suggesting that you, SIL, DNs all have girls time out (you may not have time). Separates the parents and lets SIL see that you are a kind helpful auntie.

HollyJollyXmas · 14/12/2014 12:04

What arsehole-ish behaviour! They should have bought her the doll with a note saying they know how hard she is trying to be a good big sister, which is a really hard job sometimes etc. thats what normal people would have done!

I feel so sorry for her. Are they generally horrible people??

HeyheyheyGoodbye · 14/12/2014 12:05

Ah, they sound like Quiverfulls/biblical patriarchists. If they haven't read the child-beating book, I bet they've read the wifely submission one by the same couple. I have, for research purposes, and WOW.

Your poor DN. I think you're in a difficult situation re: buying the doll/having it tout with them because you don't want SIL to take out any anger with you on the poor little girl. I sympathise. How horrible for her. At least she has some nice relatives to escape to now and again :(