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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a bloody cruel thing to do to a 3 year old?

305 replies

MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 10:55

I know it's none of my business but I had to get it out somewhere!

Visited PILs yesterday. SIL and BIL were there. They have a DD who is 3 nearly 4, and another DD who is 3 months old.

We were talking about Christmas, what the kids were getting, as you do. During the course of the conversation BIL said they'd had to go back to the toyshop to return one of their DD1's toys.

Long story short, Dniece1 has been quite difficult since Dniece2 arrived. She has been getting up during the night, wanting to come into her parent's bed, throwing tantrums. To be frank, it's all behaviour that I would consider par for the course when a new sibling arrives.

Anyway, DN1 asked for two things from Father Christmas this year- crayons, and a Snow Glow Elsa. She REALLY wants that Elsa doll- we took her for a day out a week ago, and she was chattering on about it then.

SIL and BIL have decided that her 'awful behaviour' over the last few months has to stop. So they've taken the doll back to the shop, and in its place, on Christmas morning, they are going to leave a letter 'from Father Christmas', telling DN1 that she is not getting the doll, because her behaviour has made FC feel she doesn't deserve it, she has to be a good girl etc etc etc.

I know lots of parents threaten FC at this time of year, but to actually do it! Especially when the child is only 3, and the behaviour is, IMO, quite natural! Surely she needs reassured, not told she is a bad girl??

SIL and BIL aren't too happy with me, because I was so shocked when they told us, I said 'isn't that a bit extreme?' before I made myself shut up.

I don't want to drip feed, but I don't always agree with SIL and BIL's parenting techniques as it is, though obviously I don't say anything as it's none of my business. They are members of a very (imo) right wing evangelical church, and it all seems to be about 'sparing the rod and spoiling the child', submission of women etc, and they are big believers in smacking/harsh punishments for children.

OP posts:
Addictedtocheddar · 14/12/2014 13:36

Gosh. Harsh. I would never do that. Not sure my 3yr old could remember bad behaviour from weeks ago and link to a xmas present not coming!

JoffreyBaratheon · 14/12/2014 13:39

That is very sad. If this was my family, I'd have to talk about it with them and try and make them see reason. They are going to create a christmas she will never forget - but for all the wrong reasons.

whothehellknows · 14/12/2014 13:43

In her "mothering" classes, did no one think to mention that it's normal for 3 year olds to have tantrums? They all do it, regardless of new siblings, etc.

marne2 · 14/12/2014 13:43

I think you should buy her a doll or a similar one, her parents sound horrid. I hope you can make Christmas special for her.

MarjorieMelon · 14/12/2014 13:44

That's really sad Sad

Viviennemary · 14/12/2014 13:46

You absolutely should not get her the doll whether or not you agree with her parents. Three is a bit young but I have threatened mine when they were little with not getting this that or the other unless they behaved. So many saintly people on MN.

thornyhousewife · 14/12/2014 13:51

This is horrible.

Please consider using this episode as a chance for you all to have a discussion about the role their religious faith plays in their lives.

Can you get your/their parents involved as reinforcement?

It's so upsetting that parents exhibit this abusive behaviour but also upsetting that people who observe it are too embarrassed to discuss it.

Please please consider calling them up on it. And yes tell their daughter she is a very special and loved little girl.

Wibblypiglikesbananas · 14/12/2014 13:55

There is nothing worse than those sanctimonious idiots who abuse children in the name of 'religion'. Now I'm not religious, but I'd like to believe that if there was a God, the behaviour of your ILs is certainly not what the average beleiver would term 'Christian'. I'd report them to social services and contact her school. She is too young to protect herself and someone - ie you - needs to step up and protect her.

Fiftyplusmum · 14/12/2014 13:55

Re someone saying the doll was hard to get - apparently 50,00 have now arrived from China

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2872863/Operation-Elsa-Emergency-shipment-Frozen-dolls-saves-Christmas-50-000-little-girls-50-away.html

Yes I think their parenting style is very cruel. But if you give her the doll it will cause family rift. And confuse her even more if Santa has told her she can't have it.

I would work on persuading the parents. Can you give them a book on sibling rivalry - or how to help your child when the new baby arrives - a picture book from library even.

Fairylea · 14/12/2014 14:06

I would give her the doll.

They sound bordering on abusive especially considering the parenting style and background.

If it causes a rift and you fall out with them well fuck them. Quite simply I wouldn't want contact with people like that.

Namechangeyetagaintohide · 14/12/2014 14:13

What vile people. I too would like to give the pair of them a smack. Their DD is going to be one of the posters on the stately homes thread isn't she ? Xmas Sad

pudcat · 14/12/2014 14:13

Poor little mite. If they are like that in front of others, what are they like behind closed doors. If you give her the doll will it make matters worse for her - they could destroy it in front of her. She is going to hate her sibling because of this and become even more unsettled. You must keep an eye on her for other signs of abuse.

Namechangeyetagaintohide · 14/12/2014 14:14

Although fairy at tr moment she still has contact with the DD. Any contact with normal people can only be good for the child.

Evergreenredandblue · 14/12/2014 14:16

This is emotional abuse and should be reported imo.

Original poster
MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 14:18

I can't give her the doll, now that they've told us what they are planning on doing, they'll hit the roof. I could maybe swing it for her birthday, but not Christmas. We want to continue seeing the girls, it is better that, along with PILs, we are in their lives as much as possible

OP posts:
Fairylea · 14/12/2014 14:18

That is true namechange. Such a sad thread :(

DaisyFlowerChain · 14/12/2014 14:20

I'd buy the doll and keep a very close eye on her with a view to reporting to SS of the emotional abuse continues.

A three year old will of course be jealous of a new arrival that is getting all the attention and time of the parents. Good parents ensure that time and affection is spread evenly to ensure no one is made to feel second best, they don't ruin Christmas to prove a point. If it carries on, the siblings will end up hating each other.

Namechangeyetagaintohide · 14/12/2014 14:24

It's really Sad and I'm not sure it would stand up as abuse if it were reported. Although to me ofcourse it is. It sounds like it could get worse as she gets older and more independent too.

BigRedBall · 14/12/2014 14:25

I'd like loads of Elsa goodies and dolls to start arriving at their house like Harry Potter and the letters. Poor kid. Wish I had magical powers!

RandomMess · 14/12/2014 14:26

Urgh this makes me so cross "spare the rod and spoil the child" isn't even in the bible. The shepherds crook is used to protect, rescue and guide the sheep Sad

I am so sad for your DN. Steve Chalk is a Christian parent guru - wonder if any of his books explain what is normal childhood development and how to handle it. Funny how God doesn't punish us for mistakes as we grow and deals with people compassionately and lovingly at all time.

I would tread carefully so that you remain in your DN life she is going to need you - an yes report it if you feel there is enough evidence that SS will actually intervene.

Swingball · 14/12/2014 14:27

This is so sad, I can't bear it! Sad

rumbleinthrjungle · 14/12/2014 14:28

I agree you absolutely can't give her the doll. Other than that you'd then be into risking them going NC with you, and the poor child needs someone to have an eye on her, if you give her the doll they may put the child through a second traumatic event of 'removing it'/destroying it/making her give it back to you/ give it to another child.

northernlurker · 14/12/2014 14:31

How horrible.

Op - this behaviour has nothing to do with religion or Christianity and everything to do with poor parenting.

Dh and I are 'active' Christians and attend church every week. We have smacked our dc at various points but not in babyhood and that had nothing to do with church. I work as do most of the mums at our church. We have a lot of childrens work going on and it's all built around an intention to form connections with young people, to show them they are loved and special to God and to share our faith with them. To that end we have a child protection policy and advocates and procedures to ensure we are taking care of all our children. That's what every church should be about and a church which is tolerating physical or emotional cruelty has without doubt fallen away from the faith.

I think you should be very clear with your bil and sil that what they are doing is cruel. Then I think you should keep a close eye on the situation and don't hesitate to contact social services if you feel the situation is escalating. There are a very small number of evangelical churches in which mismanagement of children's behaviour has escalated in to abuse.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 14/12/2014 14:31

You can't give her the doll - that would be seen as a direct challenge to their beliefs/practices and they'd really have no option other than to go NC, no doubt after a huge fucking row on Christmas day, and this child needs her aunt to stay in her life.

I think the plan to get her something else Elsa is better. Poor wee thing.

MrsEdinburgh · 14/12/2014 14:33

I know what I am going to suggest probably sounds awful (but then I can be a prize bitch when I need to....usually when someone has been awful/nasty to one of my loved ones).
I would buy DN & the new baby both a Frozen doll, with a note that says it's from God who says that both girls are very much loved & He hopes they will be very happy as sisters & He sent DN a sister so she could have someone special to play with.

Extreme yes but the parents sound extremely nasty.