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Original poster

To think this is a bloody cruel thing to do to a 3 year old?

305 replies

MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 10:55

I know it's none of my business but I had to get it out somewhere!

Visited PILs yesterday. SIL and BIL were there. They have a DD who is 3 nearly 4, and another DD who is 3 months old.

We were talking about Christmas, what the kids were getting, as you do. During the course of the conversation BIL said they'd had to go back to the toyshop to return one of their DD1's toys.

Long story short, Dniece1 has been quite difficult since Dniece2 arrived. She has been getting up during the night, wanting to come into her parent's bed, throwing tantrums. To be frank, it's all behaviour that I would consider par for the course when a new sibling arrives.

Anyway, DN1 asked for two things from Father Christmas this year- crayons, and a Snow Glow Elsa. She REALLY wants that Elsa doll- we took her for a day out a week ago, and she was chattering on about it then.

SIL and BIL have decided that her 'awful behaviour' over the last few months has to stop. So they've taken the doll back to the shop, and in its place, on Christmas morning, they are going to leave a letter 'from Father Christmas', telling DN1 that she is not getting the doll, because her behaviour has made FC feel she doesn't deserve it, she has to be a good girl etc etc etc.

I know lots of parents threaten FC at this time of year, but to actually do it! Especially when the child is only 3, and the behaviour is, IMO, quite natural! Surely she needs reassured, not told she is a bad girl??

SIL and BIL aren't too happy with me, because I was so shocked when they told us, I said 'isn't that a bit extreme?' before I made myself shut up.

I don't want to drip feed, but I don't always agree with SIL and BIL's parenting techniques as it is, though obviously I don't say anything as it's none of my business. They are members of a very (imo) right wing evangelical church, and it all seems to be about 'sparing the rod and spoiling the child', submission of women etc, and they are big believers in smacking/harsh punishments for children.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 14/12/2014 23:57

It is a carp idea and will not make their child behave any better. In fact it will probably terrify her that Santa really is watching!

Buy them a copy of The Parenting Puzzle for Christmas and put a note in that says 'Because you are such crap, cruel parents, who don't understand how to motivate your child, and make her feel loved, here is your gift!

Actually, I am in the middle of sibling jealousy myself and it is a nightmare! My kids, I mean, not me! It is horrible and I know that it is only when my dd feels more secure and less knocked off her perch that her behaviour will improve.

And yes, say you are thinking of buying her the doll yourself, since you know she wants it and Santa is not bringing it!

Italiangreyhound · 14/12/2014 23:58

Crap not carp!

MiscellaneousAssortment · 15/12/2014 00:09

I agree Marmadoc

Italiangreyhound · 15/12/2014 02:20

Just read the whole thread, sorry had not when I posted!

I agree with others, do not buy the doll for Christmas.

I am also a Christian. Used to go to quite a 'strict' evangelical church which did not believe in women elders or pastors. Lovely people but I did not agree with them on this. Now go to an Anglican church.

Totally, the Christian faith is about grace, but a lot of very evangelical Christians can have a rather judgemental stance. Your in laws seem to be taking this to new lows!

Agree with others, get to know SIL, be interested and share your insights with her.

Care for the Family are a Christian charity. Rob Parsons is their CEO or whatever and he mentioned he 60 minute father and mother books mentioned before.

Someone else mentioned Steve Chalke. He is lovely but they won't take him 'seriously' (he used to be very mainstream but his organisation is now no longer part of the evangelical alliance and I think it is because he has said he is pro gay relationships).

Care for the Family

Italiangreyhound · 15/12/2014 02:22

Sorry ... and he wrote the 60 minute father and mother books mentioned before.

RojaGato · 15/12/2014 02:26

They're being harsh. Plus also stupid- I can't think of anything they could do more likely to cause resentment between siblings. My DNephew was born when my DNiece was three. When we went round with a present for him, we got her a little gift too so she didn't feel left out and like the baby got all the attention now.

RojaGato · 15/12/2014 02:58

With a bit more thought...

As you already know, this is a much deeper problem really. One where you need to play the long game. Glad you are not going to get the doll. Don't want to re-state the obvious, but you really need to do whatever it takes to stay it that little girl's life, so she has a sane, stable, loving adult there for her. But you know that already. And one who monitors the situation and steps in if it ends up in a more extreme place re physical or emotional punishment and religious lifestyle choices. It's pretty extreme already to be fair.

On a practical note:

  1. Start writing down incidents you witness/hear of, in case it escalates later and you need to demonstrate an escalating pattern to authorities.
  2. Sounds like MIL has some leverage there. Could you and DH enlist her help in a softly, softly, cup of tea type chat with SIL and DIL. I'd be really careful of antagonising them though and getting into NC again- if SIL is already throwing wobblies about you being at MILs when your niece is there, you might not be far off being branded a weak vessel/an influence of Satan and excluded. and that is exactly the last thing that needs to happen from the sounds of it. Some people can get totally irrational around beliefs that they see as religious choices being challenged or questioned at all.
  3. Due to things mentioned in 2, I'd see if MIL can ramp up her present to DN as a shorter term measure to try to soften the Elsa blow. It would be too confrontational for it to come from you.

When I was six, my auntie didn't speak to or see my mum for 4 or 5 years after she saw my mum knock me to the ground and kick me repeatedly. I get the sentiment but I don't see really how that helped a child deal with the situation or make it any better for me. If anything, it put more pressure on my mum, both practically and in terms of mental health and made her more volatile.

Most important thing is a connection to adults outside the home. Good luck.

Italiangreyhound · 15/12/2014 03:48

AlpacaYourThings What a brilliant idea... But, my immediate thought was that they should have given DD1 the doll but say it came from DD2. So that she sees the sibling in a good light.

Tollygunge · 15/12/2014 09:34

Mamadoc=spot on

Aeroflotgirl · 15/12/2014 15:50

I totalky agree mamma.

Smileybutstressed · 15/12/2014 15:54

That's a step too far. She needs plenty of love and reassurance not punishment. She must be feeling so insecure especially when everyone will be doting over the new baby.

I would have a word and explain. Her behaviour will only get worse with this approach.

Poor little girl

gotothegymtomorrow · 15/12/2014 15:59

I would say this shows a total lack of empathy and understanding of her behaviour and is abusive. I feel so sorry for the poor little girl. Her parents ought to be ashamed of this cruel and controlling behaviour and should be investing some time and effort into showing her some love and affection, that she clearly needs at this confusing time, whilst she adjusts to sharing her parents with another human.

TooHasty · 15/12/2014 16:14

I think you should buy her a puppy! ;-) That'll learn them!
Seriously I think you need to bite your tongue so they don't cut you off.Your neice needs a relationship with you.I have a feeling she needs to know that she is able to come to you in years to come!

ZeViteVitchofCwismas · 15/12/2014 18:27

I am, however, going to make sure she has an extra nice and larger than usual Christmas gift from us.

Lots of little things?

NoMoreHappyMrsChicken · 15/12/2014 20:10

PM you.

TooManyMochas · 15/12/2014 20:49

Judging by what the OP says the BIL & SIL are really on the outer extremes of conservative evangelicalism. My guess is that the BIL & SIL won't take advice from non-Christian sources - by which they'll mean non-conservative evangelical ones. As evangelicals they will want to follow the Bible (or in this case their own arseways interpretation of the Bible). There's an interesting verse in the New Testament telling fathers specifically "not to exasperate your children, so they will not lose heart" (Colossians 3.21), which is basically a warning against grinding DCs down with excessive discipline. Sounds applicable here!

biggles50 · 16/12/2014 09:22

Buy them a book on child psychology for Xmas. What horrible people.

TarkaTheOtter · 16/12/2014 09:50

Doesn't sound like there is any benefit from trying to "educate" them about gentler parenting methods. You just need to do what you can to remain in your dn's life and be there for her when she needs you. Obviously if it gets to the stage where ss would intervene then that is different but at the moment I think it is important not to rock the boat too much.

CakeLady1 · 16/12/2014 10:46

That's pretty mean... Surely they could've got her the doll and said told her that it should be a reminder of how Elsa & Anna's sisterly love for each other made everything right in their kingdom & that it is an example of how (niece) must love her little sister too?

bubalou · 16/12/2014 10:54

Oh my god that's awful!!! Shock

Surely the feelings she is having at the moment is that she is not as loved and getting less attention etc.

How is the fact she isn't getting something she really wants from Santa going to help that!!!! Confused

All kids have to adjust to new siblings but the DD can't be all to blame - maybe they haven't helped the situation!!!

mushypeasontoast · 16/12/2014 11:36

What are you doing Christmas day? It seems that would be a good day for a visit from her cousin(and auntie). Tell her that Santa made a mistake and is sorry and that he thinks she is lovely and told you some ideas you might like instead. Then give her something from frozen.

Try to involve her in the magic of your christmas.

Love bombing sounds like a wonderful idea.

I would also express concerns about the pastor and his parenting classes to his boss. If he is moved on they may get someone more moderate to influence them.

A tip to the local newspaper to investigate maybe.

MarianneSolong · 16/12/2014 11:44

It is always distressing to read about emotional abuse. But I'd second all the posters who have said there is nothing you can do other than be very low key and be there for the child. (You can also hope that when the child enters the school system the teachers there may be another source of help and support, and will also log/act on any concerns.)

I think it's important to remember that there are so many kinds of abusive parenting. It is very rare for parents to consciously think, 'I want to harm my child.' More commonly parents have addictions and/or learning difficulties and are not getting the support that might help them to become better parents. (Or as in this case there may be inappropriate belief systems which are being adhered to.)

So often too there are political factors, which make it harder to address the problem. If we keep voting for a more unequal society, one in which cuts mean there's less local government money to work with parents who aren't doing the right thing, then there will be more an more children having an unhappy Christmas and an anxiety-filled new year.

youareallbonkers · 16/12/2014 11:55

Awful!! I want to buy her the doll, poor little thing!

BigRedBall · 25/12/2014 09:51

Thinking of this little girl this morning :(

Aeroflotgirl · 25/12/2014 09:54

Yes I was thinking that too BigRed, hope Santa has been for the little girl Xmas Sad