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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think this is a bloody cruel thing to do to a 3 year old?

305 replies

MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 10:55

I know it's none of my business but I had to get it out somewhere!

Visited PILs yesterday. SIL and BIL were there. They have a DD who is 3 nearly 4, and another DD who is 3 months old.

We were talking about Christmas, what the kids were getting, as you do. During the course of the conversation BIL said they'd had to go back to the toyshop to return one of their DD1's toys.

Long story short, Dniece1 has been quite difficult since Dniece2 arrived. She has been getting up during the night, wanting to come into her parent's bed, throwing tantrums. To be frank, it's all behaviour that I would consider par for the course when a new sibling arrives.

Anyway, DN1 asked for two things from Father Christmas this year- crayons, and a Snow Glow Elsa. She REALLY wants that Elsa doll- we took her for a day out a week ago, and she was chattering on about it then.

SIL and BIL have decided that her 'awful behaviour' over the last few months has to stop. So they've taken the doll back to the shop, and in its place, on Christmas morning, they are going to leave a letter 'from Father Christmas', telling DN1 that she is not getting the doll, because her behaviour has made FC feel she doesn't deserve it, she has to be a good girl etc etc etc.

I know lots of parents threaten FC at this time of year, but to actually do it! Especially when the child is only 3, and the behaviour is, IMO, quite natural! Surely she needs reassured, not told she is a bad girl??

SIL and BIL aren't too happy with me, because I was so shocked when they told us, I said 'isn't that a bit extreme?' before I made myself shut up.

I don't want to drip feed, but I don't always agree with SIL and BIL's parenting techniques as it is, though obviously I don't say anything as it's none of my business. They are members of a very (imo) right wing evangelical church, and it all seems to be about 'sparing the rod and spoiling the child', submission of women etc, and they are big believers in smacking/harsh punishments for children.

OP posts:
TaliZorahVasNormandy · 14/12/2014 19:50

I suspect that these idiots are using Santa as a convenient excuse.

Aeroflotgirl · 14/12/2014 20:05

That's what I thought SEmyarse, but I guess people pick and choose aspects of religion to follow. Yes those kind if Christan extremists woukd not follow Santa, or any of the Christmas type stuff, adopting a more JW approach.

SEmyarse · 14/12/2014 20:07

That doesn't fit with the rest of their doctrine though.

Which implies there may be chinks in their armour. They want to be seen as hardline, no nonsense, all instruction/influence comes from god, whereas actually they're happy to utilise a fictitious character, and seemingly struggle with parenting to the point that they accept ungodly babysitters and some compromise on issues.

If this is the case then they are capable of compromising their behaviour in the face of reason. I would work on your SIL since it seems she was the less extreme. She is probably feeling very guilty, she will be under huge pressure to conform to her husband's wishes, by the church and also by herself, because that's what's she's being told her purpose is.

SEmyarse · 14/12/2014 20:11

It might seem cruel taking away a doll, but consider that her parents think that any deficiencies in their parenting will heighten the chance of their daughter burning for eternity. They're not being cruel, they're just utterly deluded.

I still cannot tell my mother the truth about my views. I may as well tell her 'm jumping into a pit of fire myself. imagine how that would make her feel about her only daughter.

MrsKCastle · 14/12/2014 20:14

I think you have the right idea, OP- lots of love from you but don't openly oppose your in-laws parenting because your niece needs you in her life.

A gift suggestion for you- I got a nice Frozen picture book from the Disney store which focuses on the relationship between the sisters. I think it's called 'A sister like me'. Maybe that would help to emphasize the benefits of having a sister.

TiggerLillies · 14/12/2014 20:24

Please do ask them about what their church teaches about grace and forgiveness because they have completely missed the point. (So I give another vote for giving them 'What's so amazing about grace'). Poor child!

happyhev1 · 14/12/2014 20:29

Agree with TigerLillies. Reckon the SIL will be the most receptive, try talking to her like you're really interested in her beliefs, ask her about grace and how they model that to their children.

SEmyarse · 14/12/2014 20:48

Actually, I've just changed my mind. SIL won't listen, because she's not allowed to. It's BIL that the authority to change things comes from. So it's him that you're going to have to hit with hard theology about forgiveness etc.

ZeViteVitchofCwismas · 14/12/2014 20:49

only read half thread, it seems consistent to me, that they themselves are not making the change easier for the child if this is what they are prepared to do to their dd.

i would lay the blame for her behaviour firmly on their own shoulders and hope they give each other a peice of coal , to show the failure of assimilating the new baby into the family.

I always believe in positive reinforcement.

Op I hope you can make up for this with other elsa stuff...maybe another tyrpe of elsa doll....if the one she wants is out of stock...she may even like it more...

I owuld also be making comments like " but she is such a lovely little girl...i dont know of anyone who hasnt been abe to make it work after so long...do you think you need proper courses?

whitesandstorm · 14/12/2014 20:58

The poor little girl having such awful parents. I would keep a very close eye on things with this family. She's being not only emotionally abused but physical as well. Someone needs to explain to them how a new baby can make the older child feel left out and extra effort should be made to make sure she feels just as loved. To punish her by refusing this doll is absolutely cruel and mean.

Nativity3 · 14/12/2014 21:00

Home bargains bad a lovely Elsa gift bag (like a reusable bag material) for a couple of pounds. They also had a really nice frozen fleecy blanket for £6. Pound land had tons of Frozen stuff as did sainsburys (dressing up costumes and lots of hair accessories). You could fill the Elsa bag for a relatively cheap price with lots of Frozen stuff that would probably help her forget about the doll she hasn't got! Smile

CrapBag · 14/12/2014 21:04

Oh God this is horrendous. What a disgusting thing to do to your own child. The thought of her little face on Christmas day is breaking my heart.

I have a DD the same age and a while ago we were in Build a Bear and DH said he would buy DCs a Christmas hat for their bears. DD was so chuffed and walking around with her little hat then DCs started arguing as they often do and I got completely fed up, took the hat off DD and stormed out the shop with them. DD was sobbing her eyes out. I did quickly realise that actually she hadn't done anything wrong and I told them that and we went back but I cried at my behavour later and still feel terrible about it. Luckily DD was happy but she did mention it after. Goodness knows how your poor niece will feel. I have a feeling that your ILs aren't going to actually realise they have behaved badly and carry out this horrible plan.

TooManyMochas · 14/12/2014 21:07

I am very bemused at evangelicals that do god AND santa. how does that work? When I was brought up in these sort of churches we were always told that santa was satan in disguise

I'm surprised by that too. DH's family are very conservative evangelical and I always understood Santa just wasn't done in those circles (although I've never heard the 'Satan in disguise' one! Its more that Santa involves lying to your children and lying - even 'innocent' lying - is perceived as always wrong). To be fair what the OP describes wouldn't necessarily be the norm even in those circles - the PILs would never have done anything like that. Nor did they ever raise their hand to their children.

If you want to take this up, I've heard good things about an evangelical parenting book called 'Grace Based Parenting', which apparently "recommends a parenting style that mirrors God's love, reflects His forgiveness, and displaces fear as a motivator for behaviour" - much sounder theology than the 'wack your kids for Jesus' shite coming out of the US at the moment.

spiderlight · 14/12/2014 21:08

That's heartbreaking - poor little love. She needs to feel loved and secure now and what they're doing will achieve the opposite :( I feel like buying her the doll myself!!

Cherrychocolate · 14/12/2014 21:43

The part where they plan to leave a note for her from FC is just so nasty. Pure spite. How could anyone do that to a child?

I have a 3 year old DD, and she wants that doll too. The thought of someone doing that to her just breaks my heart.

Some people are so vile. They shouldn't have children.

Aeroflotgirl · 14/12/2014 22:09

I know it's bloody awful, I just hope that they are just mouthing off and don't mean it. I don't know what their religious intentions are, they seem confused. If they were tgat hardline, they would not believing in FC and buying Into the Christmas thing.

Susiesoop · 14/12/2014 22:20

This is so cruel I had to post. I think I would speak to your bil and sil. In fact I know I would. And it is your business. It sounds like this punishment is intended to teach natural consequences of actions. For a child this young it is absolutely meaningless but what is NOT meaningless is the letter from Santa telling the girl she is not good. At her age she will not understand/have the cognitive ability to understand that her previous behaviour has 'caused' this consequence but she WILL 'understand' that she does not deserve something she wants so badly. That is a fucking hard message to land on a 3 year old. I would be calm as going ballistic won't help the little girl and it sounds like she is going to need you in her life. There are plenty of child development books/articles that will explain that this behaviour is normal in a 3 year old with a newly arrived sibling and also how to handle it and also that 3 year olds have no concept of time so this punishment is essentially useless, apart from as an exceptionally good way to be cruel and inflict damage. Perhaps you could use these somehow in a casual way? Also lots of articles about incentive based rewards working better, the little girl could receive the doll with a letter praising her for when she is lovely to her sibling? Perhaps if you could find a way for them to see this is essentially useless as a punishment but awful to their daughter you could positively influence this situation. I so so hope so.

mumof4boys72 · 14/12/2014 22:23

I think that is rather mean to be honest,my son has been a litlle tinker! and i keep saying father christmas wont bring him anything! however he will. i just keep saying it in hope he will behave!

BetterTogether75 · 14/12/2014 22:31

They sound awful Sad

Teanbiscuitsallround · 14/12/2014 22:35

Completely agree with susiesoop.

So unbelievably cruel and it makes me feel really sad that somebody could do that to an innocent three year old.

I would definitely speak to you Bil and sil. Poor child.

murmuration · 14/12/2014 22:40

Wait, did you say they brought it back in October? Meaning that they were planning this punishment whether or not their DD changed behaviour in the next two months?

Although it was a pretty good bet they appear to punishing her for wanting her parent's reassurance with a new sibling in the family and for having the emotional control of a three-year-old, which she is. She sounds perfectly normal and not at all bad actually quite good! I have friends whose toddlers acted much worse to a new sib (hitting, sitting on, grabbing blankets from, etc), all of which was also considered normal if requiring addressing!

I hope you can manage to stay in her life and give her the affirmation that she needs that she is a good child.

Siarie · 14/12/2014 22:51

Horrible, she will remember too and one day it will bite them in the ass.

sharonthewaspandthewineywall · 14/12/2014 23:05

This is so sad x I'd have so much trouble biting my tongue Sad

Strix · 14/12/2014 23:07

Jeez, they are not exactly models of good behaviour. that is plain mean, and nothing Christian about it. Jesus preached about forgiveness. And she's three???? Presumably the parents are a bit older and should behave accordingly.

mamadoc · 14/12/2014 23:49

This thread is getting to me a lot as a parent of a 3 year old and as a Christian. It is so sad that they have so fundamentally misunderstood.

OP- upthread you said that they are using Santa to back up their beliefs. 'Do something bad and you will be punished' but in actual fact that is the very antithesis of what Christians believe.

The unique thing about Christianity is that it is not supposed to be about striving endlessly to meet a moral framework. It is about acknowledging that we fail and yet God loves us anyway, unconditionally. You cannot buy Gods love you only accept it.

What they are saying in that note ie you failed to meet our standards and you will therefore be punished and not receive something good is the reverse of the Christmas message!

God came into the world at Christmas to save sinners.
He gave us the gift of his son Jesus although we did not deserve it and did nothing to earn it.

If they wanted to truly reflect Christian beliefs they would have given her the doll because of their unconditional love for her as their child even if she had behaved really badly.

This is consistently Jesus attitude in the Gospels. He forgives and loves people like prostitutes and tax collectors who no-one else associates with. Jesus did not condone their behaviour. He said it was wrong but he still loved them and showed it in his actions.

His grace and mercy is actually offensive to the religious leaders of the day, the Pharisees. He is pretty scathing about their hypocrisy. Your BIL and SIL are in danger of being like the Pharisees.

There is only one place in the Bible, in Proverbs, where it says 'spare the rod and spoil the child' and you could take that metaphorically of course as most Christians do. On the other hand the message of grace runs through the whole thing.

PS Also in Proverbs it has a description of a 'good wife' and she would appear to be working outside the home running a successful business so quite where it says in the bible that women have to SAH I have never been able to fathom.