Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a bloody cruel thing to do to a 3 year old?

305 replies

MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 10:55

I know it's none of my business but I had to get it out somewhere!

Visited PILs yesterday. SIL and BIL were there. They have a DD who is 3 nearly 4, and another DD who is 3 months old.

We were talking about Christmas, what the kids were getting, as you do. During the course of the conversation BIL said they'd had to go back to the toyshop to return one of their DD1's toys.

Long story short, Dniece1 has been quite difficult since Dniece2 arrived. She has been getting up during the night, wanting to come into her parent's bed, throwing tantrums. To be frank, it's all behaviour that I would consider par for the course when a new sibling arrives.

Anyway, DN1 asked for two things from Father Christmas this year- crayons, and a Snow Glow Elsa. She REALLY wants that Elsa doll- we took her for a day out a week ago, and she was chattering on about it then.

SIL and BIL have decided that her 'awful behaviour' over the last few months has to stop. So they've taken the doll back to the shop, and in its place, on Christmas morning, they are going to leave a letter 'from Father Christmas', telling DN1 that she is not getting the doll, because her behaviour has made FC feel she doesn't deserve it, she has to be a good girl etc etc etc.

I know lots of parents threaten FC at this time of year, but to actually do it! Especially when the child is only 3, and the behaviour is, IMO, quite natural! Surely she needs reassured, not told she is a bad girl??

SIL and BIL aren't too happy with me, because I was so shocked when they told us, I said 'isn't that a bit extreme?' before I made myself shut up.

I don't want to drip feed, but I don't always agree with SIL and BIL's parenting techniques as it is, though obviously I don't say anything as it's none of my business. They are members of a very (imo) right wing evangelical church, and it all seems to be about 'sparing the rod and spoiling the child', submission of women etc, and they are big believers in smacking/harsh punishments for children.

OP posts:
Itsfab · 14/12/2014 16:08

They are mad, they are hard to get hold of and now they have ruined their three year olds Christmas Sad.

We have cancelled Christmas for our badly behaved kids, though when DH took all the been up one day decs down I was a bit shocked, but she is only three and she is showing NORMAL behaviour for her age and when a new baby suddenly appears.

YANBU.

MrsCakesPrecognition · 14/12/2014 16:10
  1. Your DN is not developmentally ready for her parents' discipline techniques to be effective.
  2. The NSPCC has done research that shows inappropriate use of time out is as ineffective and damaging as smacking. And the way they are implementing time out is wrong for a three year old.
  3. Young children need to be able to link actions and consequences. If they do something wrong then the consequence needs to follow immediately, not weeks/months later in the form of a letter and a missing present.

Download and send them a copy of this leaflet. And take a moment to read the section on reporting concerns yourself.
www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/research-and-resources/encouraging-better-behaviour/

Tykeisagirl · 14/12/2014 16:15

This is one of the saddest threads I've ever read. I've already comented but I've been thinking about it all day. If this is their/their church's reaction to normal three year old tantrums how would they react to children who have SN and tantrum/meltdown? DDs BF due to a combination of SN still throws epic tantrums at nearly seven.

I wish the kind of emotional abuse that's being inflicted on your DN was considered enough for SS to get involved. Thank goodness she's got you and her grandparents in her life.

scarletforya · 14/12/2014 16:16

Poor little girl. Those fuckers are crushing every bit of joy out of her little life. So she'll get crayons and a lecturing letter from Santa. Cruel, cruel arseholes.

MrsMcColl · 14/12/2014 16:18

People suggesting things like showing the parents advice from the NSPCC etc are well-meaning, but don't get it: people who are part of churches like this won't be swayed by any advice that secular organisations have for them. Because they believe they are following what God has commanded, and 'earthly' groups are secondary. That was my experience, at least.

tobysmum77 · 14/12/2014 16:22

seriously buy her 3 of them there are lots of different versions. ....

yanbu obviously

rumbleinthrjungle · 14/12/2014 16:26

Please don't be sorry Andrew! I know what you mean.

ElkTheory · 14/12/2014 16:27

Very cruel and emotionally abusive. I don't say that lightly. Some people don't deserve to have children. Honestly, what the hell is wrong with them? Sad

I can't stand the way Santa is used as a threat ("Santa only brings presents to good children," blah blah blah), but to actually carry through on this threat is about a million times worse. This child won't look back and remember Xmas as a time of warmth and love and family closeness. She'll remember it as yet another day when she received the message that she is bad, unloved, and unlovable. Long after the details are forgotten, she won't forget the message.

As tempting as it would be to give your niece the doll, I agree with PPs that it would cause too much conflict with her bastard parents. But do give her some lovely Elsa-related gifts. And keep up contact with her and her little sister. I imagine they will need you in years to come.

thegreylady · 14/12/2014 16:31

Buy her a different Elsa doll, the ice skating one would be fine, and make sure that her parents are aware of how their behaviour is bordering on abusive so they have no right to punish the child for normal childish behaviour.

mamadoc · 14/12/2014 16:36

That is horrible, cruel and very misguided behaviour

Also odd that they invoke Santa. In hardline Christian circles the norm is not to 'do Santa' at all and to let your kids know he is not real, focus on the real message of Christmas etc (We are Christians but we do Santa and we in no way do physical punishment or child cruelty).

And so ironic given the message of Frozen which is about sisterly love really. My gorgeous nieces love the film and really relate to that aspect. If BIL and SIL were cleverer they could use it to give a positive message about the good things about getting a sister.

Maybe you could buy BIL and SIL some milder Christian parenting books. Rob Parsons is popular in our congregation. His original book was The Sixty Minute Father and the main thrust is to say how parenting is more important than most other things in life and to value and love your kids (as God loves us, unconditionally). He's gone on to write some more titles. It would be a good antidote to their views and yet coming from their perspective a bit.

Original poster
MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 16:38

The NSPCC leaflet is very good, but I imagine they would see it as another limb of the evil government. They think things like the anti-smacking campaigns are a way to undermine good parents who are using appropriate biblical methods to raise their children. They believe that normal family life has disintegrated (because of THE GAYS and bleeding heart liberals like me,apparently) so they think they are the correct version of normal.

I am so glad I posted this and you've all told me I'm NBU and let me rant away. At times I did genuinely wonder was I overreacting in my belief that they are doing her damage- like I said, DN is a sweet, lovely child, she has the nice home/clothes/toys/holidays, a father who earns quite a lot and a SAHM, SIL (when she isn't dumping her on MIL) to do her justice does do a lot of craft activities with her,they eat good homecooked food..... Even though I 100% think they are damaging her, it's hard to know if my feelings are justified when to all intents and purposes, to the outside world at least, she's apparently living a life many children would kill for

OP posts:
AppleAndBlackberry · 14/12/2014 16:41

This is really upsetting, and what makes it worse is that she won't even understand the link between not getting the doll and any recent behaviour.

We are evangelical but I've never heard of anything like this, it just seems very controlling to me, borderline abusive.

Original poster
MincePieOfDoom · 14/12/2014 16:42

I was surprised they did Santa too, but then I thought, they're basically using him as a sort of moral in miniature aren't they? It's another way to show a child that if they don't do X they get punished because they are bad. I would say they find that quite a handy way of backing up their core beliefs

I will have a chat with DH about the possibility of buying SIL and BIL that book. It's possible I could explain it as 'oooh, my colleague X was raving on about this book for Christian parents, so I picked up a copy because I thought you'd be interested, but maybe you already have it?' They think I'm a heathen witch doomed to hell an ignorant sinner anyway, so they are hardly going to expect me to have the know how to compare and contrast Christian parenting methods.... Could be an idea.

OP posts:
VivaLeBeaver · 14/12/2014 16:45

Poor little girl.

Mercedes519 · 14/12/2014 16:47

mince your last post just made me think of "but we took you to stately homes" thread. I think there enough people on here who would testify that they were well cared for but were emotionally neglected or damaged. I'm glad she has you in her life.

mamadoc · 14/12/2014 16:47

Yes, that's exactly what I thought. You would be likely to think that one Christian parenting book is much the same as another so can hardly be blamed and who knows they may even read it.

Get them one each: there's the sixty minute mother as well as the sixty minute father and I guarantee no smacking advised in either!

Aeroflotgirl · 14/12/2014 16:51

They are emotionally abusing their kids. A lot of abusers come from goid homes, and in the face of it seem like good butter wouldent mealt in your mouth parents, but behind closed doors! In America bible community, the abuse can be horrific: belt, whip, emotional abuse!

MrsMcColl · 14/12/2014 16:51

Yes, what Mercedes said. And OP - yes yes in my experience to seeing things like the NSPCC as interfering with biblical parenting. That was totally the case with my own parents.

NameChange30 · 14/12/2014 16:52

"I will have a chat with DH about the possibility of buying SIL and BIL that book. It's possible I could explain it as 'oooh, my colleague X was raving on about this book for Christian parents, so I picked up a copy because I thought you'd be interested, but maybe you already have it?' "

Excellent idea OP, I think you should definitely do this! I suggested a Christian parenting book in a previous post but didn't have a specific recommendation so I'm glad mamadoc did.

MrsMcColl · 14/12/2014 16:55

My family aren't from the American Bible belt, and my parents disciplined us all the time with belts and wooden spoons. All in the name of Bible-believing Christianity. Shudder.

HermioneWeasley · 14/12/2014 16:57

Things like this really make me hate religion.

Your ILs are cunts. I am so sorry for your DN

Aeroflotgirl · 14/12/2014 16:57

I use the sad face for ds nearly 3, it's a laminated sad face, if he breaks something, or destroys something, I put him on it for 2 mins, with a sand timer he can look at. I tell him he is on there as he broke my statue and I show him it. After the sand has gone I make him apologise to me. It seems to work. Destroying incidences have reduced Smile

ilovesprouts · 14/12/2014 16:57

how awfull poor little girl Sad

Aeroflotgirl · 14/12/2014 17:05

Yes they are using FC as some sort of moral tool. We are Christian we do not parent like this and nor do other Christians we know do! This is extreme Christianity, Jesus loved children, he would not have agreed with this and hurting children!

mumeeee · 14/12/2014 17:17

DH and I are Christians and go to church but neither of us would do what your Sil and Bil are doing to their little girl, You cant write a letter like that to a 3 year old or a child of any age. My children are grown up but when they were children any behavior problems were dealt with straight away.