Muslim mums at our school don't mix with non-Muslim mums

[Vanillacrescents]

There are a large number of mums wearing headscarves who are obviously Muslim at our school. They only talk to each other. Whenever I greet these mums, they don't greet back but prefer to talk to each other. In fact they look the other way. The other day I was first at the school gate and a younger Muslim mum was also waiting. I managed to have a friendly chat with her but the minute another Muslim mum arrived they only acknowledged each other talking in their own language and blanked me.

Yesterday ds fell off his scooter because he tried not to collide with one of these mums as she wasn't paying attention, looking away waving at her friends. Ds fell over and landed in front of her feet. He scraped his knee and started crying however this woman didn't say a word to him or smile at him.
I helped ds up right in front of her and still not a kind word or smile. Instead she gave me a really dirty look and tried to stare me down. I just don't get this attitude and feel it is unpleasant and segregating. I will always greet people regardless of their race, religion, taste in clothes or whatever and treat them with basic respect and be polite. It almost feels like these mums look down on everyone who isn't part of their community.

I have rtft, Vanilla, but I'm buggered if I was going to read the lot before I said my piece. I certainly didn't want to take back that thought after rtft and the question still stands.

I would find it hard to put a sympathetic face on, had a child crashed into me with their scooter. DS1 likes to scoot down with me to pick DS2 up from school on the days when he gets home first and I always make him walk it through areas where there aren't wide open empty pavements, eg outside school or shops.

I don't think there's anything wrong with people standing together on the playground, chatting with people of similar backgrounds etc but what I can't abide is people being rude.

We changed ds schools a few months ago, there are only a few people who nod and say hello in the mornings, the rest walk past me with no acknowledgement whatsoever, even when I'm walking towards them with a smile firmly in place. I find this totally ignorant, whatever race the person is.

OP, I can understand why you'd feel upset about the scooter incident, yes scooters are a menace but it seems this was the fault of the other Mum who wasn't looking where she was going.

DS1 likes to scoot down with me to pick DS2 up from school on the days when he gets home first and I always make him walk it through areas where there aren't wide open empty pavements, eg outside school or shops.

Well done you!

I would find it hard to put a sympathetic face on, had a child crashed into me with their scooter.

Which simply proves the point that some individuals are not very nice or sympathetic, regardless of any group they may or may not belong to.

but I'm buggered if I was going to read the lot before I said my piece.

Nice display of prejudice. The irony!

TheNewStatesman makes some good points in her post a couple of pages back.

My DC school isn't very multicultural but there are a few muslim mums/dads and they are very friendly and mix with everyone else. I have also met very friendly muslim mums when out and about so maybe it is just a school clique thing as my DC's class is quite cliquey so it can happen in any group.

It's a clique but people do tend to gravitate towards those who appear to share their values. We all want to be with people who "get" us. Some people are just guarded and cliquey about it.

And its quite normal to want that. It is also normal to make quick assumptions-not necessarily desirable but it is human. Ie "she looks different to me-she might not like me"

Just thinking of my FB friends list for example - all similar social class regardless of race/nationality/religion (group or bracket would probably be a better word than class). And that is no accident. Social "class" is still really important.

Luckily, things which (almost) everyone has to do which have a common purpose like being at work or participating in education push people of different races and religions together so you get the chance get to know people as an individual, slowly and in a normal way. Things like school gates is all a bit awkward and forced. It's no wonder people form cliques.

British people don't have to put up with as much prejudice but racism by definition is treating someone differently solely because of their race so yes White people can be victim of racism too I just thought I'd point that out.

Some of the most religious people. I have met have been incredibly rude and judgmental of non believers and they are Christian.

I am tempted to say it is their loss (ad with a'll cliques) as you sound perfectly nice and not u.

The solution is do as I do - work full time as many muslim women do by the way - plenty are doctors and lawyers etc - so you avoid the boring mundanity of the school gate and school collection. one of my greatest achievements in 30 years of being a parent of 5 is avoiding collecting them from school.

This happened at my son's school. I decided to solve it by learning some basic sentences of Urdu and greeting them in that - then they all spoke to me :)

I don't see the prejudice in not wanting to read over 100 posts (on a topic that's thrashed out, every few weeks) before asking a simple question.

green there is a lot of truth there. I will have had 11 years of school gate collections by the time I am finished.

Its the part if my daily parenting I like the least.

As PPs have said, if you live in a country you are not native to, and perhaps do not speak the local language to any degree of true proficiency, it's not surprising that you might gravitate to people whose customs, culture, and language are the same as your own. If you happen to belong to an ethnic or religious minority that regularly receives abuse, you would probably be doubly wary of the majority culture. Once bitten, twice shy, etc.

I think the OP is guilty of drawing conclusions about a group of people based on a few incidents. To state that "It almost feels like these mums look down on everyone who isn't part of their community" without any evidence is to assume a great deal. To suggest that someone feels "contempt" for you due to your religion and/or ethnic group, based on an incident of a child falling off his scooter seems a wild leap of the imagination. I understand that the OP has altered her views somewhat in the course of the thread, but even the idea that now she will ignore all the members of this group is once again entirely based on the fact that they are Muslim. She is still lumping them together, viewing them as a group (and with suspicion), rather than as individuals. What about the woman who had a nice chat with you, OP? Will you now ignore her as well?

Maybe they just don't like you perhaps they feel uncomfortable or intimidated or just maybe they just like chatting amongst themselves I am not sure what is wrong with that why do these mums need to chat and mix yes it is a bit rude but why is it bothering you so much? Btw there is no reverse racism just racism.

The Op isn't BU at all. Even David Cameron said that multiculturalism hasnt worked. Whole sections of communities are simply not integrating with the local community. A lot are not even bothering to learn the language. We shouldn't have to learn their language as someone has suggested. If people want to live in the Uk surely they should learn the language and try to integrate. It's a poor thing if people can't state their opinions these days without being accused of being racist.

I think you might get "flamed" whitesand but I agree with you.

I think it's difficult for multiculturalism to work the way we have been doing it in some areas of the UK. When you think about what makes a nation a nation a shared culture would probably be it. And there are areas where different groups never mix. And the thing is, they probably don't want to. So it's like us and them.

There has to be a balance between maintaining your own identity and assimilation. I think we have become afraid to criticise, avoided rational discussion and the matter has been left in the hands of the far right and leftie hand wringers.

However culture to me means values. We don't have to have the same religion or be of the same race to have the same values. But all the while you are not meeting people of other religions or races and sticking to "your own", distrust grows on both sides and assumption is that differences are huge.

Tondelayo couldn't disagree with you more.

Of course all societies/religions have their racists and bigots.

Have you been abroad?

"Even David Cameron"

LOL.

OP, I think you've actually been thoughtful and considered all opinions here so I respect you for that.

Tondelayo sorry that came over as quite rude.
It just annoys as someone born and bred in a very multicultural area that anyone could dought there are racists and idiots the world over.

Sure we have our share but so does every country/community.

Segregation like this and the fracturing of our once harmonious society is something we just have to get used to now. The important thing is that we are multicultural, diverse and enriched. Whatever bad comes as a result of that is irrelevant.

Do the Muslim/non Muslim children go to play at each other's houses? Are the kids friends?

Not really at our school. We gave up inviting the muslim girls DSD was friendly with to playdates after the millionth rejection :(

If these women are indeed Muslim and quite fundamentalist as well, they may hold the view that non-Muslims are kafir (the non-believers, to be avoided) and so they ignore mums who aren't Muslim. Have you tried greeting them with "Salaam aleikum" ? (peace be with you)
I'd feel a bit put off as you do, as it comes across as unfriendly.

My dh is a black African Sunni Muslim and originally attended a mosque where the other people were quite fundamentalist Bangladeshi Muslims. They ignored him completely and for many months he tried unsuccessfully to make some friends. Luckily he found a better mosque attached to the University and there they were friendly and welcoming. I think it's a cultural thing, and some Muslim groups just don't wish to mix with non-Muslims (or black Sunnis either!)

The Op isn't BU at all. Even David Cameron said that multiculturalism hasnt worked. Whole sections of communities are simply not integrating with the local community. A lot are not even bothering to learn the language.

What whitesand said ^^

Segregation like this and the fracturing of our once harmonious society is something we just have to get used to now. The important thing is that we are multicultural, diverse and enriched. said scatteroflight

But how can we possibly be 'multicultural, diverse and enriched' if your first sentence is also true?

I could say the same about the white non Muslim mums at ds's play group. Ignored me completely, talked amongst themselves and generally were unpleasant when I entered upon them in my modest clothes and headscarf.

But this is a tiny minority. Same with Muslims. The Muslims at our local school where dd goes are very chatty and sociable with everyone alike, and speak English in public and around their children. I have a friend who absolutely insists on her children speaking English when not at home because she believes it's more respectful. The only Muslims who don't integrate around here are the tiny minority of Turkish ladies, very nice but have hardly any English hence why they find it hard to communicate and express themselves. I don't really see what is so hard to understand though. Most people I know, Muslim or non Muslim, mix really well as do the dc's.