Muslim mums at our school don't mix with non-Muslim mums

[Vanillacrescents]

There are a large number of mums wearing headscarves who are obviously Muslim at our school. They only talk to each other. Whenever I greet these mums, they don't greet back but prefer to talk to each other. In fact they look the other way. The other day I was first at the school gate and a younger Muslim mum was also waiting. I managed to have a friendly chat with her but the minute another Muslim mum arrived they only acknowledged each other talking in their own language and blanked me.

Yesterday ds fell off his scooter because he tried not to collide with one of these mums as she wasn't paying attention, looking away waving at her friends. Ds fell over and landed in front of her feet. He scraped his knee and started crying however this woman didn't say a word to him or smile at him.
I helped ds up right in front of her and still not a kind word or smile. Instead she gave me a really dirty look and tried to stare me down. I just don't get this attitude and feel it is unpleasant and segregating. I will always greet people regardless of their race, religion, taste in clothes or whatever and treat them with basic respect and be polite. It almost feels like these mums look down on everyone who isn't part of their community.

you introduce yourself, ask them about their kids etc? Is your child friends with their children, talking to you about them?

Yes and yes.

So I guess I am bu to extrapolate my assumptions based on the scooter incident. Good.

Am a bit surprised that so many people would not be kind to a 4 yr old boy who had fallen off their scooter, scraped his knee and was crying all because they tried not to run into you. Maybe I should start a new aibu.

Yes Hurr1canethat's why I wrote racism slash prejudice

Welcome to MN OP.

Actually thinking about it. It is also common for some Christian people to look down on people that don't go to church. Not all of them of course. But a noticeable amount.

It is also quite common for some vegetarians to look down on people who eat meat.

Some animal rights activists to look down on people who go to KFC and buy battery farmed eggs.

Some rockers look down on people who like chart music.

Some people, no matter what their race and religion, have a superiority complex and think they're better than everyone else because of their beliefs and likes. It can happen in any social circles at all.

Those people are always best avoided.

She was being unkind not helping your son OP. Even if it was his fault (sounds like it wasn't though) I can't imagine anyone not helping up a child and being concerned about them. Even if at my school the mums hang around in cliques they would most definitely console and help another child even if they are not from the same ethnic group.....they sould not discriminate like this.

Exactly Hurricane. It annoys me when anything to do with Muslims is classed as racist. If someone wants to bring any sort of prejudice into a discussion I wish they would get their facts straight.

Also, I would like to point out it wasn't OP or me who first brought racism into the discussion.

really do think that often it is simply a case of people seeking out people with similar interests, tastes and backgrounds, quite naturally, because that is who you feel comfortable with

Yes, I suppose. People may think I'm goady or naive but I do feel this thread helps me put things into perspective which is why I posted. I know these kind of threads go up in flames usually but it was not my intention to slag of a group of people based of their religion. I was just miffed at this perceived exclusion and segregation. And the lack of kindness. I could have said that I have friends who are Muslim (from another community though) but people usually respond to that by saying any racist says they are not racist cause they have friends from ethics minority groups. So I dint want to go down that route.

i do realise though that I have jumped to conclusions and that there are plenty of rude individuals around, most likely nothing to do with the community they are from. I will say this and probably get flamed but the attitude of these mums (witnessed another couple of things) seemed 'entitled' in an unconsidered way. But I can see that anyone can act that way.

People can be rude or polite. Smile or scowl, people gravitate to other like minded people, people who
Speak the same language gravitate.

I'm my experience of over 20 years in a playground there are all sorts.

Of course anyone can be racist. My friends kids were incredibly bullied in their new Scottish school for having brummie accents and a Sikh friend of mine had to apologise to us because her rude cow of a sil ignored my sons at her house as she didn't approve of her nephew being friendly with non Sikh kids. Stupid racist idiot.

Racism is across the board.

Of your experience is this op then I agree with you it seems rude and bad mannered.

Do the Muslim/non Muslim children go to play at each other's houses? Are the kids friends?

I think this is a very regional thing, but I do know that there are "issues" of muslims and non-muslims not really mixing with each other in some towns, especially in the north of English and the Midlands.

Yes, I do think it matters. Society becomes a less comfortable, less trusting and more fractured, frightened place when it starts to splinter along ethnic lines. It's inevitable that it will lead to racial and religious tension, sooner or later, because human beings are a group-based primate species--when we start to hang out in "us and them" groupings, hostilities inevitably emerge.

For what it's worth, I am a minority in the country where I live, and I am a huge believer in learning the common/official language of the country and socializing across ethnic lines. I do see a minority of long-term foreigner residents here who are lazy about learning the local language and only want to hang out in "bubbles" of their own group, and I think it's destructive. I would be quite happy to see the government here making stronger moves to push foreign residents to learn the language properly--like making certain privileges (permanent residence rights, for example) conditional upon passing a certain level of language proficiency.

Of course everyone wants to chatter at top speed in their native language to other members of one's diaspora some of the time, and this is natural and harmless up to a point--but it shouldn't be going on all the time!

RE the hurt child thing though. Some people these days just do not feel safe touching other people's children.

Once my child with severe learning disabilities bolted. He just ran into the woods and kept running. I ran after him screaming his name and in absolute pieces thinking I'd lost him.

I then came across a very worried looking woman who stopped me and said "are you looking for a little boy? He went that way, I could tell he was disabled and shouldn't be alone but I didn't want to get in trouble if I got hold of him"

The poor woman clearly felt completely torn. She went one way. I went the other and we managed to corner him once she had my permission to grab him if he went near her.

I wonder what the Spanish mums in the Spanish school playgrounds are saying about the (more than likely) cliques of expat Brit Mums!

I think we are just as guilty of sticking to our own when living abroad.

I'm afraid to say I've noticed this at our school gates recently. I think maybe they stand out a bit more as a group because of their head scarves. There are other groups though, if you look closer the mums appear to be in the same age bracket or clothes bracket, if you like.

I dont think there is anything wrong with people being groups where they have mutual shared interests, whatever that maybe. But I agree there are some groups of people who choese not to mix - I'm not sure if this is good or bad but I know they have freedom of choice.

Maybe the mum you speak of in your OP just isnt a very nice/warm person. I have friends who are muslims both in groups that were completly mixed and thrown together by being parents to kids. One as part of school one as part of baby group. They dont wear headscarves I'm not sure if this is significant or not, they chose not to identify themselves in this way (or whatever Ive never asked it just doesnt come up)

But like I said ^ I have noticed another group who dont want to mix. One of their sons said to mine 'us brown boys gotta stick together - we are muslim brothers' my DS (8) didnt have a clue what he meant and I just left is as it was part of a 'lunchtime story'. From this I just think there are some people who want to stick to their own religious communities - fair enough if we play/live side by side peacefully.

There are plenty of groups at the school gates I dont want to be part of - had enough of all that queen bee, bitching, and wending - I get in an I get out!

Trying to see things from both sides.

I should add, kids on scooters/bikes/ball things - anything other than walking sensible out of the gates get on my nerves. The HT always puts in newsletter about not have scoots etc on school site - I think it indulgent when it is the wrong time and place to be safely doing such things - maybe this was what her gripe was?

I do also think that there is that much racism in the UK at the moment that people from other countries do feel unsafe.

I was in the pub about 6-7 months ago waiting for DP to finish work and a man walked in on his own so I started chatting to him (like I do when I'm bored to death when DPs shift has run over by yet another hour) I thought he looked a bit apprehensive at first but I assumed it was because he thought that the giant angry looking man behind the bar wouldn't like men talking to his girlfriend (he doesn't care he trusts me) but we ended up had a lovely chat about where he was from and what it was like there and what it is like here and where the weather is better. Then when I was going he said
"It's so nice to talk to someone who isn't racist, I get abuse so often"

How horrible to feel like that. Scared that people will be nasty to you just because you happen to be born at the other side of a big water mass. It really shocked me.

I agree Miles SO frigging irritating to be slammed by some bloody kid going too fast in a crowd. One knocked my then 3 year old DD into the road on her back by scooting along too fast round a corner whilst his Mum wandered along miles away.

at DS old school there were 3 major cliques

Muslim mums
Polish Mums
the English Mums (or varying hues)

was not very friendly to be honest- there was no community feel. Now he is at a CofE school its mixed ethnically- but about 100000% friendlier.

I kind of agree with what TheNewStatesman said to be honest

I think anyone (Brits in the Costa del Crime included) should make an effort to integrate, smile, learn the language and mix

that said- at the old school by far the unfriendliest were 2 English Mums - and their bitchy ways were what made me want to leave ultimately

I think Muslim headscrafed Mums are a very very easy target- but whenever I smile- I get a smile back and thats the main thing

unlike ghetto bitch mum who iced me when i smiled at her

Hurr1cane - the scooter incident mum didn't just ignore the OP's child though - she gave the OP a dirty look when she was picking her son up and comforting him. Even if she didn't feel comfortable picking him up herself - and I absolutely accept that people do feel this way - she could have said 'Is he OK?' or looked sympathetic.

Yes, I do think it matters. Society becomes a less comfortable, less trusting and more fractured, frightened place when it starts to splinter along ethnic lines. It's inevitable that it will lead to racial and religious tension, sooner or later, because human beings are a group-based primate species--when we start to hang out in "us and them" groupings, hostilities inevitably emerge.

You described it much more eloquently but this is what I believe as well. But many pp have said that people just gravitate to those who are like them. I'll try not to let that bother me.

I wonder what the Spanish mums in the Spanish school playgrounds are saying about the (more than likely) cliques of expat Brit Mums! I think we are just as guilty of sticking to our own when living abroad.
I would find this just as 'snobbish' and unhelpful.

Some people, no matter what their race and religion, have a superiority complex and think they're better than everyone else because of their beliefs and likes. It can happen in any social...

I completely agree.

If another kid rides a scooter over my feet I will take the damn thing and smash it to pieces in front of them.

perhaps it was the third time that day this mum had nearly been taken off her feet by a scooter?

agree Miles SO frigging irritating to be slammed by some bloody kid going too fast in a crowd. One knocked my then 3 year old DD into the road on her back by scooting along too fast round a corner whilst his Mum wandered along miles away.

Ds didn't scoot too fast. It was outside of the school gates on a path and he stopped so not to collide.

Racism doesn't work both ways. White anglophone people hold the power and are the default and dominant culture. Do you get regularly abused in the street for being white or wearing Marks and Spencer? Do you turn on the TV and can only find programmes presented by and starring women in hijab speaking Arabic? Are there regular debates in the media about your right to wear high heels because they are a security risk in airports and also because they oppress you even though you don't realise that because you've been conditioned into thinking it's a free choice?

Do people who don't know you assume that your every movement, facial expression, gesture or comment is representative of your race as a whole and not just an individual characteristic? Do you regularly feel relief when you see someone who talks the same language as you or has similar experiences and viewpoints comes along for a chat?

Your OP and subsequent posts contain racist viewpoints. And to be honest I wish people would admit they are racist rather than taking great offence when someone points it put.