To ask if anyone HASN'T done the whole Santa and Tooth Fairy thing?

[mrsHawk1ns]

Not saying I won't with my DS's once they're old enough, but was just interested to see if there is anyone out there who hasn't done it, and just been honest from the start that they don't exist?!

In RL I have never met one single person who doesn't 'do' the Father Christmas thing. My mind is boggling. I just assumed everyone did it. Those of you who don't 'do it', don't your children feel that it's really unfair? Don't they ask why there are images of him everywhere, he's in every shopping centre and garden centre, and on Christmas cards etc etc, but he's not a part of their Christmas? I'm starting to feel a bit ranty. I think it's because of the previous poster who said they'd encourage their children to tall all their little friends that it's all a story. It would make me REALLY cross if someone told DS on purpose because their parent had said, 'tell all your friends it's a lie'. Why burst everyone else's bubble? Grr. And I know the poster said she's childless so it's irrational to get ranty, but I can't help it. I think I'm going to have to have a think about what we're putting in DS's stocking to get back some Christmas magic.

When I'm not feeling ranty I think 'each to their own' etc, but that post wound me up.

I wouldn't get too wound up farewellfigure, my parents never told me the father Christmas myth and I never felt I was missing out, I just thought of it as a nice fairy-tale. My parents never tried to get me to tell other kids it was untrue though and I think the poster who said she would do this may change her mind when she has kids. Hypothetical kids are very different from real ones and whilst I think the reasons for parents not wanting to buy into the whole FC/TF myths are varied and valid I think that most parents would realise they'd be setting themselves and their own kids to be quite unpopular if they went round doing this.

Mrshawkins, we didn't do the Santa or Tooth fairy thing, BUT we told our dcs not to talk about it with their friends- ie not to tell them that it's made up.

In the same way we told them not to tell their friends that there wasn't an all seeing beardy weirdy in the sky, or an inpregnating spirit, a virgin who had a baby, a blue flying man who eats sins, a man who travels in his dreams, a sulphurous devil with a pokey trident thingy, a guy who built an ark and saved all the animals two by two, a lady with snakes as her hair, a god who manages the harvest provided he gets enough hearts to eat, yadda yadda.

Having said that, we have dcs who fervently believe in magical flying unicorns, so I think all parental guidance all rubs off anyway, and they believe whatever they like. Their games are pretty cool actually!

venus who is the blue flying man who eats sins? He sounds cool!

I've calmed down a bit now and back to thinking live and let live. Phew.

" Those of you who don't 'do it', don't your children feel that it's really unfair? Don't they ask why there are images of him everywhere, he's in every shopping centre and garden centre, and on Christmas cards etc etc, but he's not a part of their Christmas? "

I don't tell my kids Jesus or the Virgin Mary were real either..... but they don't seem to struggle with not having Jesus as part of our Christmas.

Besides which- very few (if anybody) has said that FC is actually banned from their family celebrations. Just that we prefer to keep it in perspective.

No worries saucy. I'm over my ranty moment now. It was just the bit about encouraging children to tell their friends it's a load of old bunkum that really wound me up. I'm all calm now and happy that everyone will have a smashing Christmas with or without Father Christmas and the Big Beardy Weirdy in the sky.

Right, where's my cinnamon candle?

Ah I feel sorry for the kids who have had this part of childhood denied them by their parents.

I loved the tooth fairy and father christmas when I was young, and know my own did too.
No trauma here when realisation hit. Don't know of any kid who was upset by the truth.

I also loved, and loved reading to mine the Magic Faraway tree et al, and don't believe I was in the slightest bit traumatised to find out that this tree and its fairy and goblin inhabitants were the figment of someones imagination.

In an earlier post I mentioned children will have to face enough "harsh realities" of real life when they're older butI think these words seem to have been a bit misconstrued. By "harsh realities" I'm referring to just that really, a child can be a child and protected from all that is bad in the world while they're young. That is not the case for all children because unfortunately some are exposed to "harsh realities" when they are children. I can't change that but I can for my children. That is why I let them have all the joy of believing in Father Christmas and the tooth fairy while they're young. It won't do them any harm to realise it was all make believe when they're older.

It's ok farewell. My DD's best friend is Muslim anyway, so unlikely to be an issue any time in this lifetime

Maisy the reason people are taking the piss out of the phrase "harsh reality" is that, regardless of you views on FC, it's not a phrase that has any relevance to the topic in hand. What is the "harsh reality" you're trying to protect your children from here? That the presents under the tree were really bought by mummy/daddy/nanny/ other people that love them and want them to have a good Xmas? Not really on a par with the Rotherham sex abuse scandal or ISIS putting cyanide in measles vaccinations is it.......

I understood what you meant, Maisy, but it just don't think it applies in the case of FC. Believing in FC doesn't shield a child from any harsh realities I can think of, just as experiencing him as a nice story/game that's imaginatively, but not literally, true, doesn't bring a child any closer to 'what's bad in the world.'

I think some posters are imagining small children being brought up in fun-free, Christmasless households where any mention of FC gets them a sharp rap on the knuckles, but in our house, at least, it's probably exactly the same as yours in the run-up to Christmas, apart from the fact that our son thinks of FC as a nice 'let's pretend'.

Vegan, my son thinks of FC pretty much exactly as he thinks of the Faraway Tree - involving, fascinating stuff he adores having read to him (particular favourites are the Land of Goodies and anything to do with the Saucepan Man!) and playing when we're walking in the woods ( might that hollow lead to the bottom of the Slippery-Slip?) BUT he has never thought MoonFace, Silky and co were real. They're stories. Just as FC is fir him.

Farewell, you might be surprised. I would say around a quarter of my friends with kids don't 'do' the FC is literally real approach - some of course because they come from places with different Christmas traditions - but I'm pretty sure that no one knows we don't among our acquaintances in the village we've lived in for a year. We don't go around proselytising!

I really didn't think it would cause this confusion. Of course I wasn't referring to the "presents under the tree were really bought by mummy" as the "harsh reality". I'm shocked that anyone thought that is what I meant. My words were...."there are enough harsh realities of real life to face when they're older" ......how can anyone possibly think that that is referring to a child finding out that it was really mummy who bought their presents. The point I was making was that for me I will let my children enjoy the make believe of Father Christmas and the tooth fairy(which is what the post is about) while they are young because it is only while they are young they will have that innocence. When they are older they will get a few of life's knocks (but nothing to do with Christmas)...(hence the words "the reality of life), until then I will let them have all the joy and innocent fun of a bit of harmless make believe. Basically what I'm saying is in my opinion there's no harm in letting kids believe in Santa. My argument about letting them enjoy the innocence is only because I felt I had to justify it.

I was brought up not even celebrating Christmas, and FC/Santa absolutely wasn't real. In fact, the whole was a ploy by the devil to get people to follow him instead of doing what God said.

I was never upset about not having 'Santa' come to the house. I was gutted to not have a tree, tinsel and presents though.

VeganCow, The Faraway Tree is REAL, ok?!!

I love Christmas and I don't DO 'Santa' - in fact, it's only on MN (and in my DSis's house but she is an Xmas fanatic) that I've encountered 'doing Santa' to this ridiculous extent.

We go to Carol concerts, Winter Wonderland, Santa's Grotto, hang stockings, have a tree and all the other Christmas shizzle - my poor, poor, poor DC for missing out

And PomeralNights - I totally get what you mean.

Also if any kid over 7 still 'believes' in Santa - they are shitting you maintaining the pretence for YOUR sake.

Me. We do Christmas stockings and exchange coins for teeth under the pillow, but the children have never been under any illusions as to who is actually behind it all, especially as neither of them can get to sleep on Christmas Eve and I really don't want to stay up to a ridiculous hour waiting for them to drop off. They close their eyes and we all pretend they're asleep.

Also i don't see what is hugely 'imaginative' about believing in Santa.

A popular icon invented to sell fizzy drinks is real because your mum and dad tell you? I'm really struggling with how 'imagination' is being developed there.

The idea of Santa predates Coca Cola's advertising campaign.

Yes, I know about Saint Nicolas Squoosh - but Coke made him 'Santa' as we know him (just like Universal Studios 'invented' Frankenstein's Monster)

That's actually a common misconception although they certainly popularised his image.

My parents never really sold it iykwim. They said 'father xmas' but it was always understood that it was a euphemism for them. They signed the presents and 'father xmas' delivered them sort of. I never 'believed' and didn't think anyone else really did. I was quite surprised when i grew up and found out anyone had properly bought the whole story.

However, DH (who has a very magical imagination even now and is very naive and trusting) was told the elaborate stories of santa and believed whole heartedly till he was secondary school age. One day his mum sat him down and told him he didn't exist and he was truly devastated (he was a lonely insular child who had a lot of imaginary friends). It came up in conversation the other day and i laughingly asked how he found out and he got really upset and refused to talk about it. Said he remembers it as one of the worst experiences of his life/childhood.

To me that just sounds so ridiculous, but he really feels it.

I think this level of deception, albeit magical for a short time, can actually be quite harmful and a bit cruel.

My DC are too small atm, but i'm not really sure how we are going to deal with it. I was planning the same way i grew up - just passing comments etc. But DH wants us to really labour it (despite his experience)

Who's to say who is right or wrong, it's a personal choice isn't it. But speaking from the experience of once being a child myself and believing in Santa, there was nothing to equal that sheer joy and excitement going to bed on Christmas Eve awaiting Father Christmas. I'm glad my parents did it for me as I do for mine.

My DD is over 7(she is just 9 in fact) and she still believes - She isn't doing it for my benefit she honestly believes he is real. I know that this is about the age she is going to find out the truth but why would I tell her? If she can have one more year believing in something magic then what is the harm? ( Dp and I do secretly think she might end up like the man in ELF and still believe when she is 35 - if that happens I will have to break the news to her gently)

I don't think believing or not believing in Father Christmas/ Tooth Fairy etc makes any difference to whether your children will be able to face the harsh realities of life! That's down to their upbringing and having the support of family and friends. I do know people who have never had these "myths" in their childhood who are truly bad at coping with the hard knocks, and many who believed in Santa/Tooth Fairy/elves and sprites as children who are stoical and resourceful at dealing with the harsh realities of life. Either way, it's quite rude or insensitive to go round trying to burst the bubble of those who want to enjoy the custom. Among family and friends with children, it's about a 70-30 split - about 70% do the Father Christmas/ Tooth Fairy thing, 30% don't and just enjoy getting presents from family and relatives and are just as happy. What you don't know you don't tend to miss.

mrskoala.... that is a very extreme case with your dh, thankfully I've never heard of it affecting others quite like that. Most kids take it in their stride.

actually Squoosh, that is now ringing a bell. Probably from a similar thread this time last year!