To want to see my nephew?

[StuntNun]

My DB had a baby last November, my first 'blood' nephew although I already have a niece and a nephew on my DH's side. It was a complicated and traumatic delivery so when DB and DSIL didn't want visitors right away I understood. However, since then any tentative suggestions that I could visit have been politely but firmly rebuffed. I texted my DB last weekend to say that I could get cheap flights to come over for a weekend this month and I would stay overnight at the hotel near them. He replied that it wasn't convenient until December at the earliest! I have the strong suspicion that in December it will be 'too close to Christmas' and I will be fobbed off yet again. At this point I just think I may as well call the whole thing off and stop asking whether I can visit.

AIBU to want to visit my DB and DSIL and meet my nephew?

What more can you do than ask him what he wants?

Slithy naturally I want to see my DB. It has been difficult for the past couple of years that we haven't been able to get together as frequently. But that's not the the most important thing to me, I want to support him and if he is struggling with his son's health and his wife's social/family issues then I certainly don't want to make anything more difficult for him. But to do that I need to know his expectations whether they be to cut off all communication, to wait until DSIL is ready, or to continue as I have been doing, or whatever. I know DSIL doesn't feel comfortable answering the door but she has also been very appreciative of the gifts that have been sent. My mum reckons DSIL doesn't mind so much when she knows something is coming and she can track it online. Or if answering the door is the only difficulty then I could easily send a gift by special delivery so I know it will arrive when by DB is in to answer the door. Clearly it will take time to build my relationship with my DSIL but I'm perfectly willing to do that. But I do need some indication from my DB of just what he wants.

You don't "need" to know anything. They've asked for privacy and if you don't respect that, they won't trust you and let you in.

Ok cross post, I see what you mean but I still think you need to approach this very gently.

I think you are still making this more about you than about him/them. You are still assuming that he actually does want to see you and is being prevented by his wife, when actually he - all by himself - might have decided that seeing you is more than he can cope with right now. If asked directly I would be very surprised if he would actually say that though, because who wants a big family row?!

I think the best thing you can do is not to ask direct questions at all. Just state that you are there for him whenever he is ready, and leave the ball in his court.

I think that sounds fair enough - I still think you won't be happy if you don't get the response you want though.

Can you see that there may be reasons totally unrelated to you that they are behaving this way, and they may not want to discuss it at all? Regardless of you wanting to know their expectations.

I know that every time my sister tries to make plans with me currently, I fob her off with "oh sometime soon etc" as it's easier than telling her the truth.

But OP, if your SIL is suffering from some kind of anxiety disorder / social phobia - & of course this is still all speculation - can you not see how a stream of questions about this sodding gift would be really unhelpful?

Think about it - shall I post it special delivery, shall I send it when DB will be home, when will that be, or maybe SIL can answer the door at certain times, etc. etc. Can't you see how far removed this is from the lovely example waiting gave of the chocolate from her godmother?

If you're still focussing on the gift, just send something that you're absolutely sure will fit through their letterbox. Or a voucher & apologies that you haven't got round to sending anything sooner. Please don't make a potential baby gift into something else for them to worry about. Whatever is really going on, I'm sure they can do without additional hassle!

Tbh I think your DB has indicated what he wants.

I want to post in support of StuntNun. I've been somewhere close to where she is now, and perhaps I can offer some insights.

I thought long and hard about whether to post at all, because the very last thing I want to do is to make posters like Waiting feel bad. Let me be clear - it is absolutely the right thing to do what you need to do to get through. But I want to explain how it feels from the other side. I also think that there are enough differences between my situation and, say, Waiting's or StuntNun's that we can appreciate the parallels without triggering anyone.

My mum has Multiple Sclerosis. She was diagnosed 24 years ago, so I have known that she suffers from a chronic, degenerative, life limiting condition for my whole adulthood.

Since her diagnosis, she has not told me one single thing about her condition. Not one - not prognosis, not treatment options, nothing. She says she doesn't want to worry me, or talk about it at all in fact. I think there are probably other reasons too - denial, pride - but as she doesn't talk about it, I don't know.

I respect her decision. I never push her for information; I respect her privacy. As her condition has worsens, I become aware of changes when she can no longer hide them - moving into a wheelchair, for example, or getting a stair lift installed. I don't mention the changes when they come.

But because she chooses not to talk, I can't give her support. I can't get support for me because I don't have anything specific to be supported.

I noticed that she'd lost weight when we last Skyped. I've known for a while that her throat muscles aren't working well. Swallowing is hard. Has she lost weight because she's dieting? Or is it something else? Now I remember that last time I visited she requested soup for lunch. Is there anything I interpret about that? Is she getting towards the stage where tube feeding is going to be needed? And, if she is, what does she need?

Or I get a voicemail on my phone from my step dad. Mum's in hospital, please call him. I've been thinking for a while that her voice sounds breathy on the phone; is the MS affecting her breathing now? Is she on a ventilator? No, this time it's "just" that she's given herself 2nd degree burns doing the ironing. It turns out that she has no sensation of heat or cold left and so ironing is now dangerous for her. I'm relieved, but I'm also feeling guilty because she was ironing the silk pyjamas I gave her at the time; I wouldn't have chosen a gift that required ironing if I'd known I was putting her at risk.

Can you see how, by being in the dark, I spend so much of my time worrying about her? Perhaps unnecessarily. Hopefully unnecessarily. The point is I don't know.

Saying that my feels are those of disappointment is completely missing the point. I mourn for what might have been and I yearn to help her. I doesn't come close to explaining the awful, churning feeling everytime I see her number come up on my phone in case this time it will be The Call. Or the constant, nagging feeling that I'm failing her, that there's so much more I could do to help if I only knew what to do. I wish I could put aside the permanent anxiety I feel that someone I love beyond measure might be suffering and won't permit me to help.

And it's not because I'm making it about me. If I were doing that then I'd do sponsored events in aid of MS Society and tap all my friends and colleagues for a quid. I'd tell them, with shining eyes, how awful it is for my DSs to grow up with Granny in a wheelchair. (It's not, BTW. They love her just as she is. She's just Granny. Her legs don't work, and her hands sometimes look like claws and she dribbles. But she also takes them for rides around the garden in her wheelchair, and lets them poke each other in the bottom with her sticks, and organises competitions for who can pick up the most Lego pieces with her Special Grabber, and cuts them out shiny Chinese dragons with her Special Scissors. I'm very comforted that she had enough time post diagnoses to meet and know her grandsons.)

So I'm not saying that StuntNun should push her DB and SIL. I'm not saying that they're wrong or should change one single thing that they're doing. But please do bear in mind that if StuntNun feels like I do then she's suffering too.

Silence, ignorance can cut like a knife.

Can I make it clear that when I referred to disappointing I
Meant the family it's be disappointed not to see the wee one.

I can see however that it didn't come across that way

Sorry about that mess of a post. I can't find my specs.

In a nutshell I was saying the family must be disappointed not to have contact with the wee one although I can see it didn't come across that way.

I hope this post is better

I appreciate that Cariad. I just wanted to explain how, no matter how disappointed someone might feel about not meeting the baby, it's a drop in the ocean compared to the other churning feelings that same someone might be experiencing.

Cinnabar - for your very difficult situation.

Can you see the difference in that you have not blamed it all on your step dad or implied it's an abusive relationship? And you have set aside your own feelings to respect your mothers choices?

Waiting, that is a really sad post, my only thought would be that if somebody said to me that "we are respecting dds privacy", it does sound a little pompous (sorry). May be there is a better expression somebody may come up with? x

It's true that I have set aside my feelings, yes, but I'd be lying if I said it's come easy. It hasn't. And I'm certain that there were times in the early days, and maybe still now, when I get it wrong. It's a horribly fine line to tread between showing polite interest and asking too much.

I'm also more fortunate that StuntNun in that I do get to see my Mum, and I know that it is MS. I'm not sure how I would cope if I didn't even have those two things.

Cinnabar - sympathy to you. It sounds like you are doing what your DM wants (though at some considerable cost to you). I think you sound very brave and supportive.

And I think that's what StuntNun is trying for too. But she's 10 months into a journey that I've been travelling for 24 years - I really feel for her. All I wanted to do, without putting words into her mouth, was show that it's possible that her emotions in this area are deep, and painful and valid, and not all about her.

Landrover, that is the one pharse that relably worked for us. It's not something we'd have ever throught to say but worked well for poor dh who didn't know what to say to ils when they asked about dd without telling them everything. I think it's very clinical but cut and dry because people feel rude pressing for more after that. For us it would have meant telling people how little we actually knew and all the scarry possablities that could have been. We were just managing expectations for ourselves and didn't want to be responsable for anyone elses.

To add a little more about our situation. Dd potetially had heart problems, before six months we'd rushed into hospital twice due to consultant calling and saying get there. I delayed returning to work until we knew what we were dealing with. We got the all clear when she was almost ten months old as she grew out of it. At six monts much more concern was rased about her joints which had been being monitored from birth, but no diagnosis was made until she was 18 1/2 months old. She was put in for an intensive course of phsyo which meant 12 appointments a week for six weeks. Then she was put forward for a clinical practises trail continuing phsyo. I took more maternity leave than planed and eventually didn't return to work as although my manager had been supportive and helped to organise extra parental leave that I'd have needed to take it would have meant spending all our free days in hospital, traveling or in clinics. Dh was very lucky to be offered an extra contract by his employers that meant we could manage without me working. It's only now we see phsyo every 12 weeks and the consultant every 12 months that we have the time and resources for visitors.

If someone had come to us and said they felt left out, were worried and throught it was time to see dd we'd have invited them to visit and fit them into the hetic shedual between appointments. But we would have felt resentful and manipulated and it would have negitavly effected our relationship with them. It certainly wouldn't have been enjoyable for them and dd would not have been at her best. Luckily mast people respected our keep away vibes and didn't press the issue of visiting more than asking occationally are you up for it and were happy to hear about the positives that we were celebrating dd acheiving.

Lots of my relitives would have wanted to support us and have the knowledge to do so. My aunties are nurses, one cousin is a med student, two more are training as nurses and one is a children's nurse. But we had a naturally occuring support group in the health care proffessionals and other parents we were incourntering day to day and one woman online who I've never met. Had they known more they'd have worried when we didn't fully involve them and I'm sure they felt very pushed out.

We cancled dd's baptisum twice. I missed my cousin's hen party without giving her prior notice and could only tell her 10 days before that we weren't coming to her wedding. I dropped of the radar for 6 months with most of my friends and rarely saw the family that live close by for more than a few moments at a time. But we've come through it in the end!

CinnabarRed, I am so sorry about the situation with your mum. I can't begin to comprehend how hard it is for you. My dad was very closed off about his treatment for bowle cancer and it's not nice to not know what's going on. We didn't know he was that ill until much later and he'd finally recovered for his op. But we knew more was going on than he was telling us when he was in icu/hdu for a month and in hospital for almost three months when his recovery time should have been eight to ten days. But as a previous poster said the worry and upset we felt then was a drop in the ocean conpared to not knowing being responsable for making the decisions with dd. But it's the most natural thing to want to know what's going on with your family and must feel almost impossable to support them when they don't want to be open with you.

StuntNun, please tread carefully with your db. If it helps, heres what I could have coped with when we were just coping with everyday life.

Rather than asking what he needs from you, because I could never have articulated that. Try saying what you've noticed, that visiting seems to be something they aren't ready for. That he doesn't want to discuss dn's medical situation. Let him know you respect that but if it's not the case you don't want to cause offence. Then say you and your mum are there to support them and listen to them if that's what they need.

Patience has paid off for my family. One of my aunts and my nan have just spent the week with us. My godmother is visiting this weekend. My cousin and her new husband the week after that. And others at varrious points between now and christmas. We're going up to them for a big family party too in december. It' so nice to be able to enjoy their company when the only thing I have to worry about is how many days dd can cope without a nap!

That's a lovely update Waiting.

I hope you get that I wasn't in any way criticising you.

All I wanted to do was explain how it might be that StuntNun isn't being "me me me" about her situation.

She's certainally not doing that! I don't think she's in a situation that's fair to anyone.

It just seems a little like the perfect storm in similarties to how dh and I felt an acted.

I think between the two of you you have both made some great insightful points and have hopefully given OP a few ideas on how to move forwards.

Fx that the situation for OP's Dn is not as serious as what both of you have had to deal with.

Momnipotent I had a trip planned to London a few months ago, that unfortunately got cancelled, and my DB suggested at the time that he could bring DNephew to meet me while I was there. So I don't have any reason to think that he doesn't want to see me. The limited information I do have points to DSIL not wanting to receive visitors, i.e. my mum and myself.

Slithy I don't expect any particular response from them, I just want to know what their desires are. Yes I want to visit them, of course I do, but I do realise that I don't know the ins and outs of their situation, whether that be DNephew's health or the reason DSIL doesn't want visitors.

Loon I was actually thinking of copying Waiting's example of the chocolates, as I know both DB and DSIL are chocoholics and like the good stuff. I was just speculating that if I arranged delivery for a Saturday then DB would be home so the issue of DSIL answering the door wouldn't occur. I had already sent gifts when DNephew was born, it's just that I had picked out something for DNephew that DSIL will particularly appreciate and I thought I could post it seeing as I can't go and visit.

Cinnabar that sounds like quite the ordeal for you, whether your mum is trying to protect you or herself. I think the way you feel is the way my mum feels about my DB, DSIL and DNephew and it's eating away at her. I'm not happy about the way things are going but that's more born of my frustration because I don't know what my best approach should be. There have been lots of thoughtful comments and advice on this thread so I will be well prepared to speak to my DB at the weekend.

Slithy it was someone else on the thread that suggested an abusive relationship. I thought I had posted that I didn't have any evidence to suggest that. As for blaming it on DSIL, I do get a lot of comments from DB in the nature of 'DW doesn't want me to talk about that', 'DW says that's a bad time for a visit and it will have to be after mid-December'. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick, I'm not hassling them and asking lots of questions. I sent one text asking whether it would be possible for me to visit and after that had been rebuffed, a second text asking whether I could send a little present for DNephew. I couldn't get through to DB on the phone at the weekend, turns out he was on the phone to my mum, so I'll speak to him next weekend as he prefers to have phone calls on Sunday mornings.

Thank you for the advice Waiting, I'm going to have to take notes.

While I want to go and visit them, it certainly isn't a selfish thing. It means using up an awful lot of my DH's airmiles to get the airfare and hotel paid and my DH being available to look after our three children while I'm away which isn't always easy because he has to travel for work a lot. And my youngest has bad separation anxiety at the moment so leaving him is even more fraught than it usually is with small children. And don't even get me started on how much I hate flying!

If your SIL is the one at home, or doing the majority of the childcare, it stands to reason that she might be the decision maker in terms of visits etc. plus there is the chance that DB is taking the easy road in saying DW says no, rather than explaining more convoluted reasoning.

I think chocs and a thoughtful note is a great idea. Other than that and perhaps taking waitings advice on telling them you are there when they are ready, I'd maybe take a step back.

I'm sorry, Stuntnun, I totally misunderstood about the present. I didn't realize you'd already sent things & this was an extra & special gift.

And yes, it's not surprising you're confused about the situation if your DB is making it sound as if SIL is responsible for the fact that you can't visit. I don't think he should be doing that, TBH - it makes things really awkward for you. He should be agreeing arrangements with this wife first & then taking responsibility for those as family decisions.

You sound very thoughtful though & I hope you do get to meet your nephew soon & establish more of a relationship with your SIL.