to think I must be abnormal?

[namechangeraug14]

This really upsets me. Try not to be too harsh.

I joined Mumsnet ages ago, as I read a friends link on Facebook, and have posted in bereavement and telly addicts mainly ... But I am not a Mum. I'm 34 and I've never had a boyfriend. Never.

I don't understand why I'm not ugly, I have a good job, my own home, lots of friends, interests ... but have never had any male interest (including online dating when I've tried that.)

Of course the result is that single has sort of become my 'norm'. You know how some people can't cope when they aren't in a relationship; I am sort of the opposite!

And yet I do get lonely and I do desperately want children and it really upsets me that this might never happen.

Does anybody know someone like me?

Napoleon - I know you weren't, don't worry :)

But the problem is, as I said in my other post, it's not as if I joined a dating site and discovered hundreds of men lived in say, Wiltshire, but only about three in cheshire There's a fairly even distribution of them - but my immediate neighbours do not seem interested in meeting me! I was explaining that on the odd occasion I HAVE received messages, they have been from men hundreds of miles away. It isn't me trying to be awkward or resistant but practical. Unless men in different areas of the UK find different things attractive - who knows!

Although you have reminded me of a friend who is a fluent French speaker who met her husband in London. He was struggling to speak English and she translated for him. They now live in Belgium She was 36 when she met him and 38 when she had their son so you never know - maybe I spoiled brush up on my schoolgirl French!

Back to the post, however: I am worried if I explain myself that I will be told I'm making excuses and making choices. Some of the things I am not saying 'no' too but I am saying 'not right now' - as per the dating agency. I have had a pretty horrific time lately and I just know that any form of rejection - no matter how polite! - would upset me so I am deliberately waiting. The clubs are lovely suggestions but they do rather seem to suggest I have unlimited time as well as money neither of which is true (sadly!) Re the holidays - singles holidays, are just not for me.

I do actually think it's a little unfair to say I want a man in my immediate area. When I've signed up for the dating sites and have been prompted by their questions I have stated I would like to meet a man, as I am heterosexual, in the rough area of X. This doesn't mean I have stamped my way through life rejecting hundreds of suitors who live half a mile outside my county! It does recognise that an online relationship with men in Scotland, London, Plymouth, would be difficult.

OP, I think you need some support rather than the bashing you are getting from some quarters. Oh, and what HalfEaten said was frankly laughable and bordering on offensive.

First, you are NOT abnormal. I have a female friend who is attractive, intelligent, funny, good job, wide range of interests and hobbies, loads of friends. She has now been single for approaching eight years. She has tried online dating, paid and unpaid, and had some dates but not a great deal. It gets her down sometimes. Yes, she has tick boxes but not many. She has loads of friends, but none of them seem to know any single men. Similarly, I'm a man who has been single 4 years and similarly found online dating to be useless. I have loads of female friends and none of them have any single women. I think a lot of it does depend where you live.

Second, I share your views on distance. When I was online dating, 50 miles was my maximum and that covered an area that included several decent sized towns and a couple of decent sized cities. But I didn't want to meet people who were over an hour's drive because it does make it harder to meet up on a regular basis and it's seeing someone regularly that helps it develop. It's like one of my two sole dates from online dating only lived 4 miles away but worked ridiculous shifts (Police) and it meant it was two weeks between dates one and two and two weeks between two and three. That's not for me. I did try dating someone who lived two hours away but it pretty much becomes weekends only. I'd like to see someone mid-week as well. Which is why I know distance wouldn't work for me. If you know that wouldn't work for you, that's fine. Everyone has some form of preference. Like they won't date single dads. That's fine. So is having a distance limit.

Third, standard advice is always join groups, be social. Well, I'm out all the time. My single friend mentioned earlier is out all the time. Old hobbies, new hobbies. Meet new people. They just never seem to be single people. And all these married/coupled friends we keep making only seem to general know other married/coupled people.

So, there are lots of us out there who have followed all the advice, tried every avenue but it doesn't happen for us. Some of us give up totally, or have a break and try again. You are ALLOWED to feel down about it occasionally. But what you have to remember is that it is all LUCK and some of the people who gloat or criticize you for not trying X forget that they just got LUCKY. Or in some instances, settle.

Being particular about what you want is fine but you do have to be mindful that you are closing yourself off to a wealth of opportunities (whether that be about relationships or anything else). If people are happy to live like that then this is fine but if you are unhappy with aspects of your life then the only way to address that is to change what you do. As someone else said, if you keep doing the same things you will keep getting the same things.

In terms of where the single men live, it could be anywhere! Your thought processes about 'if there aren't any single men in Cheshire why would that be any different anywhere else?' is very limiting and demonstrates how you are being limited by your thinking. I genuinely think that CBT would be really helpful for you, there are lots of free online self help resources so you don't even need to talk to anyone if you don't want to but it will help you to understand the way that your thought processes are impacting on your life in an unhelpful way - as can be the case for most of us at different times but its not always obvious till someone points it out.

If it helps, I lived down south for many years and only met awful men. I moved to Yorkshire and met a few more awful men but then met my husband who is significantly older than me, has children from a previous relationship and is amazing - he is definitely not what I would have described had someone asked about 'my type' and people often don't believe that we are a couple because we are so different but we have been together for 15 years and are very committed and in love - but it wouldn't have been the script I originally wrote for myself. If I had stuck to the script my life would have been very different - just saying.

I completely agree if you are feeling delicate, OD is not a good place to hang out.

Walking clubs are exceptionally cheap and there are ones for younger singles too, you could go twice a month, but again, I don't want to convince you into something you don't want to do.

Perhaps all that you need at the moment is to acknowledge that the time isn't right to plunge into the world of dating, but it is on your to do list. Everyone has given you good advice on being friendly, chatting to people, places you might meet more men and so on. It needn't mean orienting your whole life to finding a partner, many of these suggestions would enhance your life anyway and make you new friends/enhance your existing life.

Relationships are often quite difficult though- I've done a quick check of my four closest friends and my own relationship, all of us are married, but three of us are married to people who aren't from this country (though in the same place at some time point), two to people with children already, certainly most of us have done long-distance rel. at some time, and only one couple would fit with having met within an hours drive, have no previous children. Just sayin'!

Do you have any hobbies?
Maybe join a club for those hobbies in the premise of making friends-- you might meet a likeminded man.

NotNew thank you - your experiences or rather your friends experiences certainly echo mine.

Mrs you have misunderstood me a little bit. There are single men in cheshire - but they do not, it seems, want to be in a relationship with me. I can't imagine I will suddenly become hugely attractive to Scottish men if I widened my search is what I am trying to explain!

I do not wish to date men with children for a plethora of reasons and they are good reasons and reasons that are personal to me. Again, if - if - I met somebody in real life and knew them and their children already, that might be different, but I do have my own reasons for not wishing to go down the ready made family route, not least because I want one of my own.

I know loads of gorgeous women like you who struggle with the same predicament (mostly they live in London if that makes a difference?) No apparent reason why any of them have not managed to make online dating work, despite trying OD and more traditional methods of meeting people. None of them have been abused or have any reason why they struggle to form close relationships.

I reckon your situation is way more common than you'd think.

I also tried OD. Found it sole destroying, painful etc etc. nothing like the miraculous solution to singleness people think it should be! but i did meet my perfect man after a year with only two other dates and lots of sending messages and time wasting. my man is nothing like what I expected (lived to far away, already had kids) but he is perfect. I found him after I have up trying to hard, maybe relaxing and not carrying so much helps? sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Napoleon, the problem is people have fixated somewhat on the distance and it is largely a red herring.

I certainly DON'T chat to people at weddings, skiing, horse events, laughing and smiling then suddenly go 'ugh, you're from Hull, go away!'

But in terms of online dating, specifically, when you are prompted to fill in who you want to meet and in what area, things do need to be reasonably local. Otherwise, meeting for a coffee/drink, which seems to be the standard date thing, would involve hours of driving and hundreds of pounds in petrol - for one date. This would be different if you already knew the person (for example if someone met someone they'd been at school with or university and discovered they were both single again) - those examples are different, but i just do not feel not wanting to spend my weekends driving the length and breadth of the United Kingdom to meet a man for an hour or so on the off chance is unreasonable.

Walking groups are cheap in terms of money but costly in terms of time; our local one does not have anyone under the age of sixty and believe me I know as I have close links to it!

I think it's just one of those things I will probably - things may change - probably have to suck up and accept. I hope that my brother meets someone as then I might have nephews and nieces.

I should also add that I know a huge number of people who have done online dating. I only know of one marriage and one long-term relationship. No one else got beyond a handful of dates with anyone and most tended to just have one date and bin.

Sorry, I did understand you. The point I am making is that people are not uniform. Just because you haven't had much luck in Cheshire, doesn't mean that this will be the case elsewhere. No one is the same as the next person and maybe the people who you will be happy with don't live in Cheshire. They could live in Scotland, Timbuktu or Outer Mongolia but unless you widen your search you will never know.

The distance thing though is just a concrete example of something a little bigger - it's about widening your net and embracing opportunities. So the walking group doesn't have anyone under 60 - do you remember how Bridget Jones met Mark Darcy? Imagine if she had never gone to the party full of old people ;-)

Mrs I think the issue is that if you happen to meet someone on a work course or some such who lived from 200 miles away and you just really clicked in person, you might consider getting involved with them (assuming you had the time and money for all the petrol, or plane fares and hotel bills). But you're not going to go on a quick coffee date to see whether you want a proper date if you happen to get a message from someone online who lives that distance.

www.madwalkers.org.uk/ -young twenties and thirties walking group in Manchester.

I'm not going to go on about it, because you seem happy with the status quo. Yes, you would have to do something differently to get a different result, that might be risky in terms of rejection. Good luck with it all!

OP I didn't suggest singles holidays. You're skim reading again! The type of holidays I suggested are group activity holidays that are OK to join as a single person because you have the group there so you won't end up eating all alone etc. In other words, a solution to your statement "I do not really go on holidays as I don't want to go alone".

The ones I went on have had couples (even one mad couple on their honeymoon!), family groups etc in them as well as single people and also people on them who are in couples but perhaps their DH/DW doesn't like diving or mountain biking etc. The point is that (a) you enjoy a fun holiday which can just generally make you feel a bit more positive about life and (b) you may make friends who might be the first step to meeting a single man through a non-dating route. As I said, I met a female friend on a diving holiday and she didn't live very far away so we kept in touch. She eventually introduced me to my DH (not as a setup, she just invited us both along with about 10 other people to the same beer festival. She hadn't even twigged we might like each other). Look at Explore, Exodus and In the Saddle (Riding specialist).

Now, your question - The thing is, if men in cheshire don't want to date me why would men in Derbyshire, or Yorkshire? That's a genuine question. It isn't that there are loads of men in say the south west but none up north - there are plenty in both but they just aren't interested in me!

With respect, that seems to be a question about not getting online dating responses, because you haven't said that you've approached any single men in real life and been rejected by them I don't think. The answer may be that your dating profile is pitched wrongly, that your photo is ugly, that you draft your messages weirdly, who knows? Without any of us seeing what you put on there we have no idea and you've refused offers of help from posters who will advise you by PM.
Even if it was a question about not getting dates from non-online situations, one poster did say that she had no idea that she was coming across as standoffish but a good friend was kind enough to point it out to her - have you asked any friends if they can give you honest advice?

How about the next time one of your friends asks if you have a boyfriend you say " I don't, and I have no idea why I haven't got one - do you have any idea?" Particularly ask any male friends if they can help you. You need to be ready to hear things that may not be very pleasant to hear, but it should help you in the long run.

Mrs I thought Bridget and Mark met when they were children actually... Or is that just in the film and not the book?

But it's still perpetuating the whole "friends have friends" thing. I think that it's true when you are in your 20s when most of your friends will be single, or casual dating, with only a few in a serious relationship. By the time you get to mid and late 30s, most friendships groups do tend to be mostly coupled (they've started to have children and so tend to socialise with other parents because it's easier than organising sitters).

I haven't done OD but you don't have to go for a coffee straight away do you? (Apologies if I'm wrong) Can't you chat online and on the phone for a while to see if you get on and then agree to meet later?

I see what you are saying and completely understand the logic behind it but sometimes life isn't about logic it's about letting go enough to experience something new (but then again I am a very annoying person who regularly wakes up with ideas about my next adventure and my husband just rolls over and tells me to shut up - so I understand that not everyone is on the same page as me!)

Aargh, OP, just aaaaaaaaaaaargh on your behalf!

You sound sane and normal and just single.

And OD is brutal and makes most of us want to weep but do know a couple of folk who have met through muddy matches and have said it was less brutal!

You are right! (forgot about that) But the bit I was thinking of was the awful party that neither of them wanted to go when Mark was wearing a hideous jumper. I know its a book but I think they were both in their 30s weren't they? Someone mentioned luck which is right to an extent but you do have to give lady luck a helping hand sometimes. Maybe you could go to a party wearing a hideous jumper and see what happens? (Cant work out smileys on here but if I could there would be a winking face!)

Mrs, thats almost a little patronising though itsnt it. Bridget met mark as he was a family friend at her parents party. She already knew him, it wasnt a case that she just turned up to a party of old people.

The ' clubs' line always gets trotted out to single people, but i think its just because people are at a loss of what to say, if anyone had ever actually been so a club, they would know mostly, they are attended by women who are there because their friends or an internet forum told them it would be a good place for them to go to meet men :)

And yes, of course one of those women might have a brother, or might invite you to party if you manage to get friendly with them over time, and then you might meet someone lovely, but thats a long lists of mights and a lot of luck and what ifs and its more likely that you all race home after the class because you are tired from work and have to be up early, or havent eaten as you raced there from work, or are a single parent and dont want to piss your free babysitter off on your one night out a month.

This is more the reality.

DH & (now) DIL met via a dating site. He was in Europe & she was in UK & had stipulated a 50 mile radius. But she thought he looked nice when she saw he had clicked on her profile. They messaged & skyped for about 8 weeks & then met in the flesh & things went on from there. Six months later she moved to the country DS was in & now they are very happily married.

Mrs with online dating, the usual recommendation is that you need to meet up fairly soon, just over a coffee rather than a full-blown dinner date thing, to see if there is anything there so that you don't invest too much too soon and then get disappointed if there is no spark. You could chat and chat and message for ages, fly off to Edinburgh, and totally not click in person. Waste of a lot of time, effort and money!

Jessie apologies, I did know what you mean but phrased it badly.

It's hard to explain with holidays but I just would not be at all comfortable with a group of people I didn't know. I have mini breaks - 2/3 days here and there and enjoy them, with my friends, but I definitely wouldn't feel at all comfortable going away with people I didn't know.

I have wondered if I actually am quite ugly, and that is why men don't respond to my pictures. I'm no Cheryl cole - or whatever her name is now! - but I don't think I'm ugly. But maybe I am to men, I don't know. It's hard to be objective sometimes.

Napoleon, I really, really, really don't want to sound rude or snippy as I'm not. But I'm afraid I have zero interest in any type of walking. I have always found it immensely dull - sorry! My late father was treasurer in the local walking group and was a keen rambler. Walking reminds me of childhood weekends marching through mud and wet and cold in a big loop, and then we ended up back where we started from. My parents loved it. I do not love it

The problem is people don't like a failure and I guess that's what I am in relationship terms. Is it just easier to turn it around so that because I don't want to drive across to Lincoln or something that's why I'm single - it's my fault? Not sure. I do know I've got friends who've tried online dating and have made the same stipulations as me who have had interest, I haven't had interest.

Fuck, HalfEaten! Where on earth do you get the abuse thing from? That's a massive leap to make and pretty offensive.

Wally, if HalfEaten's was a 'good post' I'm Charlie Chaplin.

OP, I don't know if I have anything useful to add. But are you sure you don't know –or don't know people who know –any single men? IME most people get together with people they meet through friends/work/family connections. I met my DP through friends. It might mean socialising quite a lot, maybe more than you might always really want to, but could be a way forward.

Also, I know you're not in London but here there are museums and galleries that have singles' evenings (although they're not all aggressively labelled or marketed like that). Might there be anything similar where you live? They are evenings where everyone is, not exactly on the pull but there with an open mind and an eye out for a date. Plus, if you go to one at a gallery or whatever that you like then you may well meet people with similar interests to yours. At the least, you might meet people who become friends or acquaintances, which ups your chances of meeting men through them ...

notnewbutnamechanged - come on, you're not seriously suggesting that, just because she's in her thirties, nobody the OP might socialise with has any prospect of having any single friends?

I am a case in point as I explained upthread. It's also a lesson in the potential advantages of hanging out with other single women - you get to commiserate with each other a bit and they might know guys who were not right for them but woudl be good for you. My single mate had never ever considered DH as romantic material for her (not had he thought of her in that way) but he's perfect for me. The OP herself has a single brother, she can' be the only one.

Also, notnewbutnamechanged and OP aka namechangeraug14 you have a very similar taste in usernames - maybe you should take this offline, we might have killed 2 birds with one stone .

I may well look into that. It can be quite hard, I think, as it's that fine line between 'I want to meet somebody' and 'I'm not desperate' - it's definitely a tricky line to balance!

Sooo true about clubs - I don't actually think there ARE any clubs here that aren't for mums and toddlers or retired people! Even if I went to either wearing a horrible jumper they are on during the day when I'm at work.

I think if I do meet somebody it'll be a random chance thing like my friend and her Belgian husband. I'm aware of course that because I've never been in a relationship I don't tend to 'see' these chances: need to think of more opportunities I suppose.