to think I must be abnormal?

[namechangeraug14]

This really upsets me. Try not to be too harsh.

I joined Mumsnet ages ago, as I read a friends link on Facebook, and have posted in bereavement and telly addicts mainly ... But I am not a Mum. I'm 34 and I've never had a boyfriend. Never.

I don't understand why I'm not ugly, I have a good job, my own home, lots of friends, interests ... but have never had any male interest (including online dating when I've tried that.)

Of course the result is that single has sort of become my 'norm'. You know how some people can't cope when they aren't in a relationship; I am sort of the opposite!

And yet I do get lonely and I do desperately want children and it really upsets me that this might never happen.

Does anybody know someone like me?

I read (yes, I am a member of a book group. It meets monthly.)
I go to the theatre and cinema
I ride horses
I see friends
I do not really go on holidays as I don't want to go alone.
I volunteer for a charity that is quite dear to my heart.

Most of those hobbies imo are quite female related, which is probably not helping you meet single men :) I think everyone's suggesting online dating as it's a whole new selection of men to look for :)

Hi OP,

My point was that there is a big difference between someone of 34 who has had a few not-serious romantic experiences but never found herself in an official relationship (which is unusual but by no means unheard of, and may just suggest you haven't found the right man) and someone who has had absolutely zero romantic/sexual experience. The latter does suggest something more complex is going on (but not necessarily bad- it may just be that such a person is unwittingly giving out the wrong signals).

I'm not expecting you to go into detail on your exact experiences but just wanted to clarify why I asked about this.

I realise why you're suggesting OD, but it isn't that I'm resistant to it. Just that I've tried it for oh, years now. It just doesn't work for me. I don't know why but I do know I'm not doing it again! It just wastes time and money, and makes me feel bad.

Like I say I'm coming to terms with stuff, I don't expect I will meet somebody now, at this stage, but obviously it's upsetting as it means I won't experience weddings and babies and anniversaries and normal family life. That is really sad, I can't pretend it doesn't upset me as it does when I think about it.

I suppose it's my own fault for thinking about it!

Would you be interested in this type of holiday?

My friend goes on that kind of holiday and though a few people are in couples, there are loads of single people. They're not there to meet someone, necessarily, but because they fancy a holiday with a group of people.

This looks like a lovely holiday.

Ok OP I'm going to be a bit harsh here, but you asked for advice.

I think you are so hung up on finding a 'relationship' you are probably coming across as a bit desperate. I on-line dated for a year, and it was a really fun year. Yes, I had some terrible dates but I was able to laugh at them and that's all they were, dates. I wasn't looking for a relationship at the time, but somewhere in all the fun a relationship found me and quite literally swept me off my feet.

You need to be more proactive. You need to approach the men that you like the look of. Your first message needs to be short and preferably funny. It's a conversation starter. After I noticed my now DP had looked at my profile (okcupid) but had not messages me I sent him a message that said "too old for you?". We messaged back and forth for a bit and the rest is history.

You need to widen your search. If you've been doing this for some time you've obviously been through the pot of men on-line close to you. You need to put some effort in.

You need to start enjoying being on your own. It makes you attractive to others, plus you'll find an awful lot out about yourself. You say you don't want to go on holiday on your own but have you tried? I upped and went to the states completely by myself. I had a whale of a time and got asked out a couple of times.

Have fun, get a life and enjoy it. No one is responsible for your own happiness but you.

OP if not having a partner is making you sad, you really should consider what others have recommended here and consider therapy or counselling- after all, that's sort of what you're looking forby posting here but you'll get a better dialogue with a fully-informed professional. You might also want to see your GP as some of the things you are saying make it sound like you could be depressed.

I was single from 30 to 37 and went on a lot of very dispiriting online dates. Like you, I did pretty much give up on it. However what finally did it for me was moving to a new city, going out and making a whole new social life for myself and eventually I met DH at an event, both of us having been invited by a mutual friend. I am not suggesting that you up sticks totally but sometimes you really have to shake things up a bit to get in the right frame of mind.

There are loads of activity holidays out there yhat suit single people by the way and even if you don't meet a partner on one you could widen your social circle and meet someone who will introduce you to someone- for example, I met the friend who introduced me to DH on a dving holiday. Have you looked at "in the saddle" for riding hols?

Does your charity have national events, like conventions?

Just some thoughts, don't lose hope.

OP, you are coming across as very resistant. I know you've posted asking if you're abnormal, and the answer is "No", you're not - but you are knocking back all suggestions and sounding quite negative. Your posts that say "I expect it's too late", "I should resign myself" (paraphrasing) etc. are also showing your negative mindset. While I disagree that there is necessarily any event in your background that may have created a problem for you, I do think that some kind of therapy might be beneficial, if only to change your apparent mindset to a more open and optimistic one.

Your 39m radius is very restrictive. Presumably you drive? Or live near a station? You can get further than 39miles in an hour, usually - and that's quite a reasonable time to take to visit people, IMO (and IME - most of my friends in the UK lived around 45-75 mins away from me, still saw them regularly!)

Activity holidays are a very good plan, especially if you go on them with a view to enjoying the holiday, rather than scoping out any single men who might be there. I have a friend who was largely single until a few years ago (when she was nearly 40) who used to enjoy sailing group holidays, for e.g. She didn't meet her partner on one, but she had great times, and met lots of friends. New friends have more friends - who have more acquaintances - so making new friends opens you up to more social events and the chances of meeting more people.

Also going on holiday by yourself can open up a whole new range of experiences - I went to Australia by myself when I was 30, yes I visited a couple of friends while I was there but aside of that I was backpacking by myself. I didn't even join a tour, I had my own itinerary and schedule to follow. But at every backpacker's hostel, I met people to chat to, spend time with, do things with - and I wasn't a naturally gregarious person either.

Another friend met her DH on a train. It was only a commuter train, but they got chatting and that was all it took for them to decide they wanted to get to know each other better - been married for 15 years now.

A previous poster mentioned talking to men in queues in front of you - how do you know they're all taken, unless you live in a tiny village where everyone knows everyone else? In which case, you really do need to broaden your range! Take opportunities to chat to people (not just men, see my previous comment re. new friends > new social events > new acquaintance etc.) and see what happens.

I met my DH when I was advertising for lodgers - he needed somewhere to stay, I needed a lodger - we became friends first and then more. He wasn't my first lodger by any stretch, I'd been taking lodgers in for a few years, but we clicked. Another friend of a friend did the same thing. One of the advantages of getting involved with a lodger is that before you do, you get to see how they live and quite a lot of their home habits! Not all of them of course but some.

Hope there's something useful in my post for you.

No, you are not abnormal, at all!! I was pretty similar and then I met and married my DH within two years and didn't have a child until I was in my late 30s so chin up.

I also have/ had a fairly similar interests list and they aren't the best for meeting the man of your dreams. Horses can be a big sticker mentally for a lot of men, particularly if you have your own, which I did (sadly no longer as I lost him, not because I gave him up to accommodate a man). Unfortunately quite often they are mentally filed as big hairy things that cost a fortune and kept their mother/ sister/ cousins constantly distracted/ frustrated/ obsessed and conversationally limited.

Anyway, I was happy, independent and apart from lack of man in my life had no complaints and could fill my days quite happily thank you! I also hated online dating but did see it as a means to an end, ironically DH and I were both online at the same time and completely missed each other. I have a wonderful male friend who was known to bang his head off pub tables regularly at my utter cluelessness, not only was I totally unaware of any attempts to chat me up but I was openly frosty, repeatedly. I honestly was unaware, thought no one ever gave me a second look.

Anyway, stuff that changed just before I met my husband and might be helpful.

I'm shy, but no one realised I was shy because give me a prop (bar to man, raffle to sell etc) and I'm gregarious as you like, without a prop I stick to my friends. After discovering my frosty exterior thanks to my friend above I decided to smile at everyone, if I felt a bit awkward in a social situation, I'd make myself smile at the nearest person male or female and I'd make inane chat. I'd chat to the mountain bikers I met out riding, warn them of impending doom down the trails etc, chatted to the lady who had sat next to me on the train every morning for the previous two years....... Sounds simple but much harder to do than rummaging aimlessly in bag at side of room tinkering importantly with crackberry until friend appeared in view and I could relax. Sorry if that sounds a bit patronising and may not apply to you but I was staggered at the difference it made.

I took up dancing. Under duress but I turned up in support of another.

Never turned down an invitation, however unappealing.

I let myself be open to all options, I didn't look at the shy and slightly geeky bloke and think, er, no. I'd chat to them and was frequently amazed by the interesting person hiding behind the shy exterior.

Whereabouts in the country do you live? Good luck!

I have always met my boyfriends through my interests rather than online dating or in bars. Looking at your interests they don't jump out as interests where you are going to meet many men of the opposite sex (but I could be wrong as they ate not things i do).
I deliberately chose to do things that would bring me into a lot of social contact with men - so I played softball (mixed teams, don't need to be super fit, lots of chatting when batting and a strong after game social life), I took up photography and joined a club (way more men as quite a gadgetty pastime) and finally I love skiing and joined an online site to find groups so I would have people (men and women, but more men seem to do this) to go on holiday with. It's through these activities I have always met interesting people and given me the chance to date some of the men and now I am happily loved up with my DP
I'm not suggesting you should do these particular 3 activities, but of the things you do like to do on your spare time I would spend more time doing the ones which expose you to talking to new people, especially men. Is your book club a fixed group or are there regular new male joiners? Theatre and cinema are lovely but at best are you just talking to the existing companion you know? Can you be part of a group that puts on plays, or involved with groups that need to arrange and put on film festivals...
Anyway that's my take and how I've approached life. I was happy on my own but I made sure my social life included 'fresh meat' as I wanted to be in love not alone.

OP- there's a phrase that goes something like, if you keep doing what you have been doing you'll get what you've always got. If you keep going in this nice sounding life full of activities mainly frequented by females (or men who have already settled down), with the mind-set you currently have, you will find it hard to find anyone. Sorry to be blunt.

If you go on Match and put in 39 mile radius, and then exclude men with children, you have probably excluded 80-90% of men who may have been just fine for you. You have narrowed the pool. Many men looking for a 34 year old woman will be 34 or older, perhaps into mid-forties. Many of these men will have settled down once already, perhaps married, quite a few with children. Actually, men who have already settled down once aren't a bad catch- they are committed to being settled down and like family life, just not with the original person (who may have left them). By excluding these men and putting in a restrictive radius (ok if you live in central London, not ok elsewhere) you are already imagining in your mind this perfect man who hasn't got kids and lives just half an hour drive away. What if your perfect man lives abroad?! What if he has two kids and his wife left him?

I know the signs of fussiness as I was like this myself and my friend who recently married was even worse- no men with children no men previously married, no men shorter then herself (and she was tall!), no men who don't out earn her (and she earned a high professional wage).

The thing is- the time to be fussy is AFTER you have met them. She would go on dates, be very fussy, but once someone showed even a glimmer of interest, then stick to them like sticky glue, trying to turn them into The One. In the end, the book 'He's Just Not That Into You' put her on the right track- it's better to be open-minded about the form your future partner might take (they might be small, an ethnicity you dont usually go for, have an unusual job) but then be very fussy- only be with nice, caring, considerate and consistent people.

You also say you can't take the rejection of OD- but you rejected most of the pool plus 2 out of the 4 guys you met. So 2 guys 'rejected' you and some others didn't pick up your profile. I don't think that's much rejection by the age of 34, really! When I was dating, about 1/3 of the guys I dated didn't want to carry on from an initial meeting, but this is just not that personal- perhaps they have someone else, perhaps they are looking just for fun, perhaps there's no spark with you. It's a look-see. You will definitely risk rejection if you want to meet someone, it does sound like you are scared of this.

I agree with Thumbwitch you do seem to be putting a lot of barriers in your way, sub-consciously perhaps, or rather just sticking with what you know in terms of hobbies and activities. I suggested a dating agency- you have already dismissed the idea as you won't meet anyone you don't have things in common with- but what would you have to lose, really, apart from a few hundred quid!? I suggested reviewing your profile or your way of searching on Match- you can't face OD again in any form, even though this is pretty much the best way to meet people if you don't come across lots of single men in your work. You don't want to holiday alone either. I think talking this through with someone counsellor, really sympathetic insightful friend) may really help.

Can I just add (as other people have covered everything else I want to say) that I've had and known some brilliant relationships be then romantic or not where we don't have loads of things in common. It's that opposites attract thing; my ex of 6 years and I didn't have a huge load of things in common. In fact the only thing we did have in common is that we found the other very attractive and very interesting. He was drawn to me because I was opposite to him and therefore interesting to him because I was an unknown quantity. Does that make sense? I wasn't looking to meet anyone when I met him, I bumped into him quite literally at a fireworks display. We chatted and exchanged numbers in a friends kind of way and it developed over time.

Look to broaden your life not search out a life partner. Take some risks and put yourself out there in a personal development kind of way. And definitely don't limit yourself. You could be turning down the potential love of your life because he lives one half mile outside of your acceptable radius!

I am probably coming across as resistant as I was a bit shocked to be honest by the statement I must have been abused by somebody close. I have to admit that really upset me.

But - I don't want to be difficult. I don't. But I KNOW I am the total opposite to needy and desperate. The thing is I have been single for SO long it doesn't occur to me to be anything else, really!

Let's see. The thing with online dating - I thought I'd explained that but I guess not. I think I first tentatively approached it at 29. I joined Match; I got nowhere. I live in Cheshire and had many messages from men in Wiltshire and South Wales but nine from my immediate neighbours other than men 20 years my senior! After 3 months I decided it wasn't for me at that time. Then I joined mysinglefriend (twelve months later?) and I was a member from about April 2012 to august the same year; I had one date.

In the interim I was on POF, sometimes, but wasn't getting anywhere with anybody. I also tried okcupid.

I had a weird year in 2013 but towards the tail end I re-joined Match. I've had two dates between November 13 and March 14. More recently I decided to give it a final shot and joined Guardian - got nowhere!

So it's not like I've tried it for a month. I've been on and off since 2009; I just don't think it is for me. I don't know if it is an age thing, because I am mid-thirties and many men in their thirties seem to stipulate women in their twenties, or because I'm not what they are looking g for in terms of attraction or what. I just don't know?

So napoleon - you said I had nothing to lose but actually I do. It's rubbish doing something everyone (as we can see from the comments on here!) sees as the sure-fire way of meeting and securing a partner. When I'm on sites I hate myself. Last time with match I really felt like I must be despicable, ugly. It was horrible! So you lose a bit of dignity and self respect and self worth. I'm sure someone will come back with - oh, that's your issue, have therapy, I did it and it was great. Well, that's you: fine. It isn't for me, I honestly just don't know how many times I can say this.

So if I keep getting what I always get then I stay single then. Funnily enough you can be happy single and my life is happy and fulfilled and all that. I go to some great events, do some fantastic things (I don't want to go on holiday alone, but it doesn't mean I never go away with friends.) But yes, in am ideal world it upsets me I probably won't have children or marry, when I think about it. I generally don't.

Sometimes meeting a partner is just luck, I think I missed the boat when I was younger (v difficult adolescence) and I've been unlucky. I don't know of in making sense but all I'm saying is I've got people on the one hand who seem to think I sit in being miserable and it's my fault and others who seem to think I hurl myself at any available man and I don't! I'm just a normal person who happens to be single?

And napoleon my nearest city is Chester which means a 40 or so radius there includes Manchester, Liverpool, Warrington, Stoke, Shrewsbury and many many other smaller towns and villages, I just don't see how a relationship that's a hundred miles away when you don't even know each other could work.

I would prefer to stay single than have to be in the complex situation of partner to a man with children of his own, that's my personal view - it's just not a role I could do well.

You have cut out a huge group of people because they don't fit with your idea of how your life should be and because of this you are left feeling frustrated. You are now saying that you are just a normal person who happens to be single, that you are happy with your life etc - so this is fine.

The reality is that life when it involves other people is not what you expect or plan for it to be and you have to bend to accommodate this (whether it be a partner or children). If you don't bend it doesn't work, so perhaps the fact that you are struggling to find a relationship that you are happy with is OK? You are happy with your life, you don't want to compromise on certain things and this would certainly all be thrown in the air if you did have a relationship and children.

Right now there is a dichotomy between your ideal and reality - it is for this that therapy might be helpful, to help you feel a sense of resolution or make a decision to let your life be different because at the moment the two things are just clashing and its causing you to feel uncomfortable at times.

Whatever you decide to do, i wish you happiness.

But that depends how you are defining the term abuse. Granted it was a harsh word to use, and I think you are defining it in the extreme. Your relationships as a young person can define your outlook in adulthood. It doesn't mean sexual or physical abuse necessarily, there are many ways to affect another persons experiences.

TBH I said good post because I agreed with the first paragraph - you do seem to be sabotaging yourself, for whatever reason. People are making positive suggestions and you do sound defeatist. That might come across on your dates tbh, and it would be a pretty huge wall to climb as a potential suitor if you thought it was doomed from the outset.

I still agree that some counseling would help. I also think you should have a good friend look at your dating profile if you continue down that road, and give you some very honest feedback on your write up.

Namechanger can I just ask what you hoped to get out of posting here? Did you genuinely just want a few people to answer "yes, my sister/best friend/colleague" is attractive, socially active and an all round nice person but has resigned herself to being single her whole life because dating has never quite clicked for her"? Or better still, for other posters to say they were like you?

Thing is, your post may ask that question, but the sub text is that you'd welcome some tips from those who have been there and done that about how to change your situation. If we've misread you, sorry. But the fact is you've got a load of posters on here who say that they were (or know someone who was) like you and things changed.

You are focussing on the online dating recommendations when people have suggested so much more than that. The least you could do is acknowledge their suggestions.

You discovered you were wrong, there wasn't anyone local online you got on with, but then wouldn't and still won't expand you search area? YABU

I think its more normal than you think, or rather that extended periods of being single are more normal than you think.

Also, people that havent done online dating seem to think its the answer to everything. It rarely is, a few people get lucky on it, but for most it doesnt work.

Ive been online dating for years, still single. Ive done paid sites, free sites, ive been picky and not picky. Ive dated a types, lots of age ranges. ive met quickly, and met slowly.

Have just dumped a guy after 3 weeks of dating because he couldnt get it up and then he confessed he was once so desperate for female attention he paid a prostitue for a snog.

Its grim out there.

My friends have declared me a ' magnet for nuts' So, despite being switched on with maybe even an over active twat radar, they still get through.

Meanwhile i know someone who split up with her husband and a week later is dating someone. shes no longer single, but hes a shit and they argue all the time and actually fight, so, i know whos shoes i would rather be in.

I wouldnt beat yourself up about it and i dont have the answer either, but just wanted to let you know its ok.

Look, I only mentioned the distance thing because someone (napoleon?) asked if I was being too picky.

As some of you probably know when you sign up with a dating site they ask you questions about who you want to meet - the only stipulations I've made are in terms if distance and in terms of not having own children. Maybe that's fussy but it is honest.

No, there are plenty of single men (apparently!) who are my immediate neighbours. The thing is, if men in cheshire don't want to date me why would men in Derbyshire, or Yorkshire? That's a genuine question. It isn't that there are loads of men in say the south west but none up north - there are plenty in both but they just aren't interested in me!

Jessie I apologise if I missed some posts: some are quite long and I was probably guilty of skim reading. I certainly acknowledged napoleons post about a dating agency and said I may well try it in the future but I just didn't feel robust enough for it now.

I definitely wanted to see if anybody knew anyone like me or had indeed "been" me, as it were! My friends seem very confident I will meet somebody - I suppose most of the time I blithely think I may or I might. But just sometimes when I speculate on my failed dating experiences I think 'really, I'll meet someone - HOW?' And then I feel strange or unusual or sad in some way.

Wally thank you for clarifying. I do however know exactly why I have struggled a bit in this area and certainly it isn't my fault in my younger days anyway. Knowing this, I don't however have the ability to go back in time! As such I can only go forwards with what I HAVE got. I will mention again since many seem to have fixated on it somewhat that my stipulation of a radius is only in regard to dating sites. I am at the Chill Factor later: if I met the man of my dreams and it so happened he lived 42 miles away from my home I would of course like to carry on seeing him!

if only!

I am a virgin and have never been in a relationship. You are far from abnormal

I met my husband through the Guardian. I was 29 when we met.
At first I was a bit unsure because we lived 110 miles apart but I gave it a shot, we met up, got on like a house on fire and quickly settled into a routine. One weekend I'd leave work on a Friday night and drive to his for the weekend and the following weekend he'd come here.
Prior to the Guardian I'd gone to classes and all sorts.
I really don't think ruling someone out on distance is the way to go.
Life has changed. We have to go with it.
Chin up Op, I didn't marry until I was in my thirties, and I had my first baby at 36.
If you really want a child then go for it.

i think the distance thing is a red herring anyway.

i dont want to date anyone further than about 20 miles away, i have very limited free time and have no desire at all to spend that travelling and i couldnt afford the extra petrol anyway. It then brings about its own set of issues should it evolve into a relationship and im never going to move towns for someone else ever again ( bad past experiences) ergo, i do not look for someone out of this area and yes, there might be someone i would get on with and fancy 22 miles away, but because of the issues ive just mentioned, its not going to work out anyway

I dont think its fair to pick apart someone because they have an idea of what they want and what will and wont look for that and are looking with that in mind.

OP I don't remotely want to make you feel bad about yourself- I was single on and off through much of my twenties and really enjoyed that life.

I totally get what you are saying about OD and if it is not for you, it is not for you. But you are quite rigid about it- perhaps your potential partner is in South Wales, is that so crazy? I also think, if I'm being blunt, that if your profile hasn't attracted more than a handful over many years, your profile may not be doing you justice. A good friend could help you with that by being honest! But enough about OD dating, you have said you don't want to do it and that's that.

But lots of other suggestions were made- a dating agency fixes up the dates for you (if you pay enough) so you don't have to keep initiating things yourself, singles holidays or walking clubs or sailing events and so on are great ways to meet people who are also single and want to make friends as well as relationships. I have an aunt who met a lovely man in a singles/unattached walking group- he's ace, but I have a feeling you are going to tell me that there's a reason you wouldn't join this group as well. That's a shame, as groups like this also often go on weekends away, holidays, they expand the circle of friends, not just partners. The worst you would come away with is some new female friends and that's no bad thing.

You want a man uncomplicated by children/ex-wife and who lives in your area. Sorry, if I had taken that attitude, I wouldn't be with my lovely husband who comes from a different country and culture. Again, I can already feel you saying- that's not for me. That's ok too- as long as you know that it's not just a 'luck' thing, but a choice as well.