AIBU: MNHQ's thoughts and what you can do

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello there

We've seen a fair number of posts recently about AIBU, and specifically about whether there's a problem in terms of some posters being gratuitously aggressive, even if the posts aren't particularly guideline-breaking in any other way.

We've done some careful monitoring of AIBU over the last couple of weeks and... We agree. Quite a few threads in AIBU do seem to veer off into a pointlessly unpleasant direction with very little provocation.

So from now on, we're going be looking out for posters who seem to put the boot in a bit too readily, and we'll be dropping them "polite mails" asking them to draw their horns in a bit. (And then if they carry on, we'll take further action.)

We'll also remove the text from the header about AIBU not being a fight club, because it's possible that this was (perversely) prompting people to think it was a fight club.

We'd really, really like to enlist your help in making AIBU a more pleasant and constructive place to post.

First off, please don't feel you have wait for an MNHQ response: the MN forums are what you, collectively, make of them, and you can set the tone. If you think an OP is being rounded on, go on and post - and say (without making personal attacks) if you think other posts have crossed a line in terms of meanness or aggression. (Feel free to refer posters back to this thread!)

But also, please report. Not necessarily because you think a post is deletable, but if you think a poster could do with getting one of our polite mails.

To be completely clear: AIBU is exactly the same as all the other topics on Mumsnet, and the same rules apply. Ideally, we want MN to be a place where people can discuss, share, entertain each other, and seek advice and support. It's not a place for posters to take lumps out of each other for no reason, and with no intention of offering constructive/interesting/funny input.

Thanks,
MNHQ

Ah, great HQ!

Out of interest what made you conclude it was because posters were hiding AIBU or felt that it was ok in AIBU

I will confront things on a thread but avoiding adding to the bunfight is very difficult.

Because there are a lot of posters who've hidden it.

@ExcuseTypos

And from quite a few threads about this that we've had recently, it was becoming apparent that lots of posters had either stopped reporting because they thought it was OK if it was in AIBU, or because they'd hidden AIBU altogether

I am really shocked to read this is what MNHQ think.

It's NOT that people have AIBU hidden or that we think its ok, it's because the vast majority think there is very little point in reporting. As Worra says, it often takes hours for anything to be done, by which time the damage had been done. So what is the point in reporting?

If MNHQ are saying that if we report, action will be taken within minutes rather than hours, then that's brilliant.

We're really sorry if things we've done have made people feel like there's no point in reporting.

We can't, we're afraid, promise responses within minutes. Our workload fluctuates massively - some days there are hundreds of reports coming in from all directions, and we have to read lots of 700-post threads to find out what's going on. Other days just seem to be less bunfighty and we can respond more quickly.

We can't, we're afraid, promise responses within minutes. Our workload fluctuates massively - some days there are hundreds of reports coming in from all directions, and we have to read lots of 700-post threads to find out what's going on. Other days just seem to be less bunfighty and we can respond more quickly.

I totally understand that 100% and the only alternative would be to outsource the moderation, which would be an awful idea imo.

But we're still left with the fact that MNHQ are again asking posters to 'report, report, report'...and yet you all struggle at times to deal with those reports.

That is why many of us have given up.

It's a bit of a no win situation because off the back of this thread, you'll probably get tons more reports that you're too busy to deal with.

I think these two points are very important, (taken from your OP, Rowan)

"To be completely clear: AIBU is exactly the same as all the other topics on Mumsnet, and the same rules apply. Ideally, we want MN to be a place where people can discuss, share, entertain each other, and seek advice and support. It's not a place for posters to take lumps out of each other for no reason, and with no intention of offering constructive/interesting/funny input."

"So from now on, we're going be looking out for posters who seem to put the boot in a bit too readily, and we'll be dropping them "polite mails" asking them to draw their horns in a bit. (And then if they carry on, we'll take further action.)"

I do think they need to be publicised more than just on this thread, because not everyone may see it.

Could they be printed at the top of AIBU threads in bold?

I think it would give people confidence to challenge those who love sticking the boot in, on the thread.

Sounds like a good plan to "reset" AIBU, MNHQ.

re. the namechanging (and I admit I haven't read the entire thread, just the first 50 or so posts and the last 30) - I think we should still be able to namechange as and when for whatever reason of security etc. (not for socky or hairy handed purposes obvs!) but have you put any consideration into the idea of having the poster's date of joining attached to their account, regardless of their namechange?
That way, you'd know if they were a newbie or not, because their name would clearly state that they joined in January 2007 or whenever (not the actual date, just month and year) and it would save a lot of the "hmm, interesting first post" and "Oldie n/c. cod, penguins, oxo tower, poo troll etc." comments.

I think it might help but I'm sure there's a downside to it that someone else will come up with.

Glad to hear this since its all too easy to hold a minority view, be rounded upon, and then find its all too easy to lose your rag in response.
It infuriates me to see posters being rounded on to the point that they say things they wouldn't have done if they hadn't been put in that position.Then of course once they do take the bait, the shit really hits the fan.

They may say something that is deleted without the context being realised.

Maybe if that happens Worra in the short term things may not seem to have changed but if posters start getting e-mails from MNHQ it could well improve in the longer term.

@WorraLiberty

We can't, we're afraid, promise responses within minutes. Our workload fluctuates massively - some days there are hundreds of reports coming in from all directions, and we have to read lots of 700-post threads to find out what's going on. Other days just seem to be less bunfighty and we can respond more quickly.

I totally understand that 100% and the only alternative would be to outsource the moderation, which would be an awful idea imo.

But we're still left with the fact that MNHQ are again asking posters to 'report, report, report'...and yet you all struggle at times to deal with those reports.

That is why many of us have given up.

It's a bit of a no win situation because off the back of this thread, you'll probably get tons more reports that you're too busy to deal with.

August is usually a quiet time for us - well, quiet in comparison with the rest of the year - so with luck and a fair wind we'll be able to dive in fairly swiftly I am so going to regret committing this to paper

Ideally, a flurry of activity and 'oi'-ing on our part will see a self-sustaining sea-change in AIBU fairly quickly, and get us back to a situation where self-moderation works better (which is always our aim) and posters feel able to go on threads and say 'goodness, I do think that's not quite cricket'.

I have no idea how to play cricket, but I take your point

Anyway, it's a good idea (as long as HQ can handle the reports) and let's hope it works.

In light of the fact that MNHQ has a busy work load and it is inevitable that action will take time, perhaps more posters would feel inclined to report if there was some sort of long term visual evidence when action has been taken against a particular poster. Some sort of consequence visible against their posts for a while. Something beyond just posts deletion long after they've buggered off to be a PITA elsewhere usually.

I still think banning name changing for persistent offenders is a good option. Doesn't effect the rest of us, and effectively 'traps' the bitchy ones in their own bitchy persona.

X posted - yes, lets hope the reports work in the meantime.

Oh I don't think you could do that fluffy. What if I someone had an off day and was deleted 10 times but were lovely thre rest of the time?

To those upthread requesting a ban on NC, I would definitely leave MN if that became a thing. I have been on MN for over 4 years (I think) and have probably had a 100 names. I'd be very easily identifiable to anyone who knows me inn RL and I want to be able to talk about the important things and the stupid things and the "sporny" things and the private things. I wouldn't bother if I couldn't name change. MN would lose a lot of posters.

I agree with your stance HQ

I don't think there is a massive issue with ;cliques' or regular long standing members

I think the issue tend to be that people see AIBU as a good place to start a ruck, or they start threads but can't handle no one agreeing with them, or they are goady bastards or sock puppets

I find most actual posters who engage in the place and contribute regularly to be fair and I have never had a run in with them

I dislike the rep this place has though and I think it's mainly unfair

Rowan. I think the issue is the I in AIBU. That makes it personal

I would also agree with banning name changing for persistent offenders is a great idea.

What if I someone had an off day and was deleted 10 times but were lovely thre rest of the time?

An 'off day' is no excuse for being a cunt. If you feel that bad don't come on the internet. If you told your boss to 'fuck off' ten times in a day & tried to excuse it because you had PMT it wouldn't wash.

I haven't been here long, but I've noticed that there are cliques who follow each other like sheep: if one of them turns up on a thread all their buddies weigh in and threads turn really nasty and personal.

Or is it that, like me, you read (and comment ) on loads of threads so that's just how it looks. It is entirely possible that they just share the same opinion and have an unpleasant way of showing it.

It really isn't that easy being in a clique on a forum.

I asked about kids having tantrums. Rather than discussing it, within 30 mins I was called a judgy sneering bitch etc etc.

I can take it but it was an ott reaction IMO

I think clarification of what constitutes a personal attack is also needed.

I nc'd the other day after a particularly weird attack on me while using my old (much more recognisable) nn.

Are there rules, or an etiquette about name changing? I wasn't sure there were any?

And I won't name her, but a LOVELY MNetter sent me a pm about that thread saying that I wasn't being rude/provocative and the two posters who had gone for me were being very nasty. She then reported their post (which fits in perfectly with your description of not breaking the guidelines but being pretty personal nonetheless). So I totally see what you are saying and am glad.
and I have updated my spreadsheet accordingly....

I mean my 'posters who I love' spreadsheet rather than any sinister keeping my eye on the mean ones!!!!

Will you investigate MNHQ if a poster reports to you saying simply that they are feeling picked on, or is it up to an independent report?