AIBU: MNHQ's thoughts and what you can do

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello there

We've seen a fair number of posts recently about AIBU, and specifically about whether there's a problem in terms of some posters being gratuitously aggressive, even if the posts aren't particularly guideline-breaking in any other way.

We've done some careful monitoring of AIBU over the last couple of weeks and... We agree. Quite a few threads in AIBU do seem to veer off into a pointlessly unpleasant direction with very little provocation.

So from now on, we're going be looking out for posters who seem to put the boot in a bit too readily, and we'll be dropping them "polite mails" asking them to draw their horns in a bit. (And then if they carry on, we'll take further action.)

We'll also remove the text from the header about AIBU not being a fight club, because it's possible that this was (perversely) prompting people to think it was a fight club.

We'd really, really like to enlist your help in making AIBU a more pleasant and constructive place to post.

First off, please don't feel you have wait for an MNHQ response: the MN forums are what you, collectively, make of them, and you can set the tone. If you think an OP is being rounded on, go on and post - and say (without making personal attacks) if you think other posts have crossed a line in terms of meanness or aggression. (Feel free to refer posters back to this thread!)

But also, please report. Not necessarily because you think a post is deletable, but if you think a poster could do with getting one of our polite mails.

To be completely clear: AIBU is exactly the same as all the other topics on Mumsnet, and the same rules apply. Ideally, we want MN to be a place where people can discuss, share, entertain each other, and seek advice and support. It's not a place for posters to take lumps out of each other for no reason, and with no intention of offering constructive/interesting/funny input.

Thanks,
MNHQ

@greyhoundgymnastics

Rowan - 'Tis v easy for us to see if someone NCs on a thread or two people are posting from the same IP but different accounts.'

Just as a q, I have two emails regged with MN, because I could never work out how to name change

I only use this one now (and was never goady!), but was that actually breaking rules?

Fraid so! Want to mail in with details and we'll provide you with a step-by-step in how to namechange?

Will do Rowan, I don't expect you to take action in every single case , it's just something I find rude and irritating.

At the risk of sounding sycophantic seeing regular posters is something I like about this forum. It's nice to recognise 'names', it feels less of an impersonal forum, but I want to change my name as I don't like it anymore, dilemmas, dilemmas.

Just quickly posting to join the chorus of "Oh, thank GOODNESS!"

I've massively dropped my presence here thanks to all the sniping. It's good to hear you've recognised it's a problem. I hope MNers will enforce its collective common sense.

If I couldn't namechange frequently ... I'd have to stop telling the truth!

Lol @ greyhound's accidental sock-puppet :)

@Staryyeyedsurprise

BertieBotts To prevent sockpuppeting - what if Tech could create a behind the scenes feature which flags up if a poster with one poster ID was posting on the same thread with 2 or more different usernames?

RowanMumsnet(MNHQ)
We do have this Bertie! Tis v easy for us to see if someone NCs on a thread or two people are posting from the same IP but different accounts.

As a frequent name changer I live in fear of accidentally sock puppeting so I very rarely comment on a thread if it goes into hundreds of posts.

Don't worry Stary - we only leap into action if people seem to be doing it to mislead, eg by having long conversations with themselves or posting to back themselves up. Although we may also take action if someone flashes their tits at us

How easy is it to prevent name changing for one individual and allow it for others?

It would seem a useful service to allow people to ask sensitive or identifying issues. But it would also be useful to restrict the service to those who abuse the opportunity.

Although we may also take action if someone flashes their tits at us

Unless they're breastfeeding at the time!

@WorraLiberty

Although we may also take action if someone flashes their tits at us

Unless they're breastfeeding at the time!

Oh lawks. Yes of course unless that.

Being a bit stupid, can I ask if sockpuppeting is where you post on a thread under two different names?

(I've been here a long time but don't know this and am now wondering why I don't know this... )

On making threads less than 1,000 that would make the Oscar Pistourius trial threads number about 20! (we are up to 8 or threabouts now...)

Yes HotPink that poster did get 'burned' on the thread, but if they were no longer reading they wouldn't have known and they didn't respond to other posters comments. Maybe an e-mail from MNHQ might just make the point more forcefully and they might not act like such a twat in future.

@Roussette

Being a bit stupid, can I ask if sockpuppeting is where you post on a thread under two different names? (I've been here a long time but don't know this and am now wondering why I don't know this... )

Yes, broadly sockpuppeting is exactly that.

However, we only take action if we think it's being done for nefarious porpoises.

Rowan you know nefarious porpoises??? I always thought porpoises were such nich swimmy creatures.

I realise I am by far in the minority in here today ... indeed I might even end up being in that excruciatingly embarrassing position, 'a minority of one' ... but I am not particularly comfortable with this.

Yes it can get quite 'hot' in here at times but, as far as I was aware, the scope to deal with this already exists, through Talk Guidelines (Regulations?), MNHQ monitoring and posters Report facility.

Now I do see that it clearly could be said that, in the OP, RowanMumsnet is not actually saying much more than that, however it seems to me to be setting an entirely different tone.

In the OP certain phrases stood out for me. All entirely reasonable , so why did I feel so uncomfortable. It felt a little like being at school assembly.

So from now on, we're going be looking out for posters who seem to put the boot in a bit too readily, and we'll be dropping them "polite mails" asking them to draw their horns in a bit. (And then if they carry on, we'll take further action)

We'd really, really like to enlist your help in making AIBU a more pleasant and constructive place to post

But also, please report

As I say, all entirely reasonable and quite clearly most posters do seem to be in complete agreement, with some even so keen that it's a bit like a school assembly MNHQ recruitment drive, with posters stepping forward to volunteer to be prefects and already suggesting suitable punishments for the 'nasty posters'

I'm not particularly eloquent so, beyond what I have said, I'm not sure I could ever explain exactly why I am so uncomfortable with the tone the OP (and a couple of RowanMumsnet 's follow up posts) set [for me] ... but I decided to stand up and be counted (even if it is as 'a minority of one').

Good point emotions

So no tits allowed? I can work round that.

I Googled 'nefarious porpoise' and I got this

(plus lots of pictures of dolphins. Are they the same thing?)

Genuinely very sorry if it came across as schoolmarmish, ADishBestEatenCold - that's something we try very hard to avoid.

We felt the need to do this because when we did a bit of pro-active monitoring (which is something we almost never do) of AIBU threads, we were a bit surprised by the things that weren't being reported. And from quite a few threads about this that we've had recently, it was becoming apparent that lots of posters had either stopped reporting because they thought it was OK if it was in AIBU, or because they'd hidden AIBU altogether.

So this isn't (as you say) a policy change - more a reset, if that makes sense. We do already mail posters if we think their tone is a bit off; it's just that posters who post in an 'off' way in AIBU were rarely getting reported.

ADish, I could name one two prolific posters whose only mission seems to be pissing people off. Of course there will always be those I find personally irritating or offensive, but this is different. Apart from mildly interjecting that "they rarely seem to post anything constructive", there's nothing I can do ... but I will report their behaviour now.

It's very similar to what was happening in FWR. Posters making comments that taken individually couldn't be seen as goading, but whose overall purpose was to derail and discredit. It can wreck a conversation entirely. And regulars were getting banned for calling them on it!

Rowan hmm very nefarious looking porpoise. Dolphins and porpoises are different, think dolphins are bigger and sleeker.

Afternoon all.

The point's been made about name changes, but I did want to reinforce it: if you don't need to NC then that's great, and I'm happy that you're not in a situation where you want to or have to.

However, there are others of us who do want the option, and really appreciate it being available.

I've had four miscarriages, pregnancies which never got to the announcement stage so are completely unknown to DH's family and our friends. I've also had a drinking problem which I still struggle with, and have suffered from depression. I was emotionally abused as a child and have a very difficult relationship with both my parents.

I need more than one NN.

I don't want to be posting on a miscarriage forum only to have someone look me up, find me on Brave Babes and assume I caused my MCs by drinking (I was teetotal at the time, but who knows that?) I don't want to be posting about my MC problems under the same name that details my mum's abusive behaviour, because my mum knows about my MCs and they make me identifiable. I don't want to out myself - me, 'Mrs Realname', by posting a funny housebuying story that will exist on here forever, there for anyone who wants to to find out that 'Mrs Realname' used to be an alcoholic, took Citalopram, can't have a baby.

I've used four-ish NNs over the last year or so, and I've needed all of them.

I'm really, really happy that MNHQ are tackling the AIBU issues. Self-policing and reporting are the way forward, not NC restrictions. If anyone's in any doubt about that, then just go and have a look at some of the support forums here and think whether any of what you read in there should be linkable to someone's 'fun' ID. Seriously, I would recommend going and having a read: try 'Stately Homes', in Relationships, or 'Brave Babes Battle Bus'. Those threads are essential for some people, and MN should be proud to host them and to allow people to post on them privately.

Ooooooh, greyhoundgymnastics! I suggested a while ago that instead of deleting posts, MNHQ should colour them shit brown

Needless to say, they didn't.

And from quite a few threads about this that we've had recently, it was becoming apparent that lots of posters had either stopped reporting because they thought it was OK if it was in AIBU, or because they'd hidden AIBU altogether.

But also Rowan because often nothing gets done...or if it does, we don't hear back about it so it can feel like a waste of time.

Then there's the fact that HQ often appear to be snowed under work-wise and not around much at the weekend.

So unless someone's getting a really hard time from another poster, I hardly ever bother reporting now.

And from quite a few threads about this that we've had recently, it was becoming apparent that lots of posters had either stopped reporting because they thought it was OK if it was in AIBU, or because they'd hidden AIBU altogether

I am really shocked to read this is what MNHQ think.

It's NOT that people have AIBU hidden or that we think its ok, it's because the vast majority think there is very little point in reporting. As Worra says, it often takes hours for anything to be done, by which time the damage had been done. So what is the point in reporting?

If MNHQ are saying that if we report, action will be taken within minutes rather than hours, then that's brilliant.