AIBU: MNHQ's thoughts and what you can do

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello there

We've seen a fair number of posts recently about AIBU, and specifically about whether there's a problem in terms of some posters being gratuitously aggressive, even if the posts aren't particularly guideline-breaking in any other way.

We've done some careful monitoring of AIBU over the last couple of weeks and... We agree. Quite a few threads in AIBU do seem to veer off into a pointlessly unpleasant direction with very little provocation.

So from now on, we're going be looking out for posters who seem to put the boot in a bit too readily, and we'll be dropping them "polite mails" asking them to draw their horns in a bit. (And then if they carry on, we'll take further action.)

We'll also remove the text from the header about AIBU not being a fight club, because it's possible that this was (perversely) prompting people to think it was a fight club.

We'd really, really like to enlist your help in making AIBU a more pleasant and constructive place to post.

First off, please don't feel you have wait for an MNHQ response: the MN forums are what you, collectively, make of them, and you can set the tone. If you think an OP is being rounded on, go on and post - and say (without making personal attacks) if you think other posts have crossed a line in terms of meanness or aggression. (Feel free to refer posters back to this thread!)

But also, please report. Not necessarily because you think a post is deletable, but if you think a poster could do with getting one of our polite mails.

To be completely clear: AIBU is exactly the same as all the other topics on Mumsnet, and the same rules apply. Ideally, we want MN to be a place where people can discuss, share, entertain each other, and seek advice and support. It's not a place for posters to take lumps out of each other for no reason, and with no intention of offering constructive/interesting/funny input.

Thanks,
MNHQ

[Stresshead123]

Great idea, I am new to MN & was surprised by the nastiness/implication in some replies I had on Aibu

[Pinkrose1]

I think it is a fact finding exercise and from there they will look at how certain issues can be tackled.

[Oblomov]

I'm a bit confused as to what this thread has achieved. The conclusions ARE?
What EXACTLY is going to change / be actioned?

[BitchyVstheUFOs]

I could now correct all the typos and sentence structure issues. But I shall just humbly mutter appologies and blame it on the time and lack of sleep

[BitchyVstheUFOs]

Tbf if someone isn't really interested in reading a thread they are not going to read it. I had a thread which was under 50 posts that was not read from the first few posts. Posters saw the title and jumped in without properly reading the op. It resulted in a circular thread and people getting irrate because i didn't want to disguss the side background issue, I actually wanted help on the problem. Not sure who more frustated me or the individuals who hadn't read the thread.

threads move and can move fast, i like the pages function as it means i can refresh quicker, don't know why it makes a difference but it does. Still means that sometimes you are writing your post and it is already half a mile out of date by the time it has posted. We all know this happens but some times we forget it when the flow of discussion is hugely fast moving of highly emotive.

I can't comment too much on the specifics of ABIU i have had it hidden for years. But there is less humour and more seriousness to MN. It is like the recession and being led controlled by fear by the politicians and newspapers means that no one is allowed to be happy and light hearted. I had to find light hearted in RL so went awol. Mind you I name change a lot and am due a name change soon. It is a feature I really appreciate.

Re clicks and quiches, if you spend a lot of time in mn there are only so many threads that will interest you, you will often wind up on the same threads as other posters not because you have been following them, but because you have just spent a lot of time on mn/have similar interests. It looks like clickiness to newbies but really it is just spending a lot of time on mn. I used to regularly on threads with a lot of the regulars on this thread. Most won't have a clue who I am due to name changes in the awol period. And the only reason for that is that i have been spending more time in rl than mn recently.

There are so many cases where things have not been deleted quickly, i can think of some pretty horrific trolls incidents that happened during the night that were left up way too long. It is not a new problem. And it is an issue that MNHQ really need to get to grips with. yes self modding is great but if we are doing the reporting and there is no back up the system isn't working. I am not saying lets change the way mn is modded but lets make sure there is someone to do the backing up and if you know it is likely to be busy then put on extra people or have a back up system with extra peeps on call to support and help.

If things are not going to be deleted for ages then it is worth committing it to the forum, people will see it and reactions gained. If it gets zapped quickly then there is less point in posting for the sake of deletion because the point won't be made to an audience it will have been zapped.

There are some very good points in a thread that is hugely long. And this post a novel rather than a post

[ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy]

Agree pink.

MNHQ, would you consider a suggestion at the top of threads that posters read all the OP's posts, or at least first two and last two pages before posting, as sometimes the pile ons continue after OP has listened and changed her POV.

[Pinkrose1]

Sorry if I was rude but it is desperately upsetting to try to do and say the right thing and be ripped to shreds.

[Pinkrose1]

MNHQ. Can you at least acknowledge that this type of behaviour does go on and is one of the reasons people like me get so frustrated? It's easy enough to report and delete someone who says 'I'm sick of this hounding, fuck off'. Much more difficult to delete someone who has twisted what a poster says and is screaming rascist, fascist, disablist, homophobic etc?

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

Thanks Pink Rose, lets hope they can recognise this.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

On AIBU is there anything you can reasonably do about the habit of dissecting a phrase, taking it out of context, twisting it and then completely ignoring the OP trying to explain it more clearly and being ignored? Then being set upon by others for the thing the 'twister' has written! It's so manipulative. It's also clever enough to slip under talk guidelines and difficult to report despite the fact others are saying complete rubbish about what you haven't written. Gaslighting is, I believe, the term.


MNHQ, this poster has summed up what happens very succinctly and its something I have see you miss time and time again, and its when things get nasty...this is what is happening!!!

If cant recognise this - and stamp it out you have little chance of ever raising up aibu.

[Pinkrose1]

MNHQ. On AIBU is there anything you can reasonably do about the habit of dissecting a phrase, taking it out of context, twisting it and then completely ignoring the OP trying to explain it more clearly and being ignored? Then being set upon by others for the thing the 'twister' has written! It's so manipulative. It's also clever enough to slip under talk guidelines and difficult to report despite the fact others are saying complete rubbish about what you haven't written. Gaslighting is, I believe, the term.

It's a very nebulous, manipulative way of intimidating and belittling people but so hard to pin down in a reporting email. Is there any way of policing this type of behaviour?

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

Yes I love, Not sure what your concern is, mine is the live person typing behind the key pad, getting slaughtered over nothing.

[ilovesooty]

Yes Jimmy but it appears that you and I have different concerns, judging by the other thread.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

I've been disappointed by MNHQ and their stance on moderation and deletion over the past couple of days

same here.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

I should think its pretty obvious who the goader nasty posters are. I certainly see their names crop up again and again, its also really easy to see how they de rail threads, and then people get busy and dragged where they do want to go defending themselves over ridiculous accusations.



By the way if MNHQ have attention over this thread I often think it would be great to somehow recognise posters who give time and time again amazing advice on certain topics, off top of my head Atilla Meerkat in relationships, Chunderella and RedtoothBrush in Child birth, PastsellbyDate in primary education...

These posters are so helpful to an amazing amount of people seems a shame they cant be recognised for their work?

[Pagwatch]

Vitalstatistix

But posters can tell them they are being a twat.
I always respond to pedants picking on spelling for no reason other than to be unkind.
It doesn't need a change of rules. People just need to call them on it and tell them not to be dicks.
It's like 'is that all you have to worry about' etc.

[ilovesooty]

I've been disappointed by MNHQ and their stance on moderation and deletion over the past couple of days.

I have no problem with AIBU. I do have a problem with abuse being allowed to stand and MNHQ s justification of that. Not that I had a reply to my report.

[mummytime]

There have been occasionally wonderful AIBU threads. Usually someone comes on and posts because they are doubting themselves and are then told clearly they are definitely not the one being unreasonable. It is a much stronger message there than anywhere else.

I would hate to lose that.

[EthicalPickle]

IABU is sweetness and light compared with some of the threads on step parenting.

[FrontForward]

And again. Allowing personal attacks to stand for 24 hours before deleting them makes the deletion pointless. The person attacked has been attacked. Everyone has seen it. It's gone unchallenged by MNHQ and by the time it is deleted nobody is looking and the person attacked assumes no one cares...whilst the attacker thinks they got away with it.

I really don't think there is much point in moderation if it's so late

[CateBlanket]

They should just get rid of AIBU. In fact now that the forum is so busy they need to do some serious housekeeping and re-think the various boards. Lot of merging of topics needs doing.

[Vitalstatistix]

I'd like to see a change in the rules so that if someone has just poured their heart out and asked for help or support, some utter dickwart coming along and saying "paragraphs" or "it's not there it's their, hth" or some other totally asinine comment gets deleted and their arse handed to them. I think that might help the section a little bit, tbh. If mn is supposed to be a supportive site, dedicated to making parents' lives easier, then someone being a total twat over paragraphs or punctuation should be told to pack it in.

[WorraLiberty]

I'm not saying they don't do their very best btw...just that it's frustrating.

[WorraLiberty]

There is no point FrontForward

It took 22 hours for the post outing someone's name change to disappear

If HQ can't keep on top of really simple, straightforward reports, how on earth are they going to manage to monitor reports from people who think someone could do with a 'polite email'?

Looking into reports that don't actually break the guidelines, to see if the person being reported is in fact generally a tosser, is going to take manpower (horrible word!) that they clearly struggle with.

[Viviennemary]

I agree with Prima. What's the point in having these long threads talking about AIBU and nothing changes.