Am i being unreasonable to not be ok with my husband going to a strip club?

[cocktail82]

Next weekend my husband is going on a stag do, and one of the nights the activity is going to a strip club. I hate the idea of him going there and oogling all these half naked woman and putting his hand in his pocket and paying for a dance. It just feels like some sort of legalised cheating to me, but he said its just how stag dos are these days, and do I expect him to wait outside whilst the others go in?!

Of course I dont, but would like to think all of the married men on the stag do would have a bit more respect for their wives and say they will go somewhere else and meet them later or something, am I being unreasonable to be upset about this?

So. No one's actively said 'don't post' and one's shown a vague interest and I'm at a bit of a loose end at last (sleepover tonight) so I'm gonna share some of this stuff. I'll give five minutes for anyone to object.
As a teaser ... the percentage chance that a stripper suffered sexual abuse as a child is quite high compared to the population mean. (Popn of women in the study, I think, but I was reading a review and they weren't unambiguous)

Corey I know it's deeply unfemist to comment on another woman's choices or deny her agency but ... When we talk about dancers strip clubs generally, we talk about women who may think they've made a free choice, but who really haven't. So they have a drug problem, or they've been abused, or they have low self-esteem, usually due to men doing them over at some point in their lives. Your friend would exactly fit that description, given what you've said about her past.

Trouble is saying that out loud makes one sound a bit patronising, a bit 'I know best', so we don't tend to say it. And I'm not suggesting you say it to your friend! But if she hadn't been completely done over by her ex, do you think she'd still choose that line of work?

Ok. Bit of an RL extension on 5 min. But here goes. Two points of order first (might be three)

1. Ive got a shit memory and I wont be posting links and stats because I didn't take notes. I got most of this from three academic papers, a survivors of the sex industry site in California, one arudent paper, the gurdian, examiner and the uk centre for human trafficking (now part of a larger agency the national crime something or other). My google tracks will let me point to details if anyone asks.
2. In most of the fora I've used before, hijacking a thread is really really bad manners. I will stop if the op turns up or if anyone objects. I'm new here and I'm already in a fairly fishery spot reputionally, so I'd rather err on the side of caution. Oth it seems more common here.
3. (Thought I'd probably find another, I do so love a list.) I'm not trolling I am not aware of being mra although I'm admittedly poorly placed to judge. I do not pretend to be what I'm not and I try to treat others with respect. I am, however: unreliable, inconsistent (ish), imperfect. I know those things and telling me them is often just a waste of your typing effort. (Other times ... well, up to you)

The uk strip club industry is legal and regulated. The majority of workers within it are well protected and say they enjoy and feel empowered by their work. They usually want to stop before they can, however, and many find that it causes damaging changes in their social and mental health over time.

Outside the uk, particularly Prague, the industry is less well managed amd it is possible that some women are trafficked or otherwise forced into tje work. This is mostly less profitable than trafficking women for prostitution however and so there is a nasty crossover between those industries.
The Prague sex industry is heavily dependent on UK stag do tourism.
Ouside the uk (couldn't find any data for here) a female stripper is more likely to be murdered than in the wider population.

In the uk, the majority of strippers are educated to tertiary level. The majority choose the profession because of the high salary. Drug use is not usually outside the norm with economic necessity usually from childcare costs.

Male and female strippers are very different. I think it was 94pct of strippers are female. Certainly very high pct.
Male strippers report higher self esteem and are more likely to see themselves as 'in control'.

Male strippers are happier with what they do for longer. Female strippers are unlikely to include stripping as a profession when describing their ideal self, male strippers are more likely to do so.

One of the major causes of loss of self esteem in female strippers centres around reactions of others to their choice of profession. Female stippers are more likely to be percieved as deviant, to be shunned socially and to be condemned for their career choice than are male strippers.

Female visitors to male strip clubs (as in men stripping) are more likely to regard it as an entertainment than a titillation. Male visitors to female clubs more likely the reverse.

Pausing for reactions, to let others get a word in and to check a source.

Also it's late

Gaah! Eldest d still up. Not keeping my eye on the ball. There will be a hiatus.

Oh. One other while it pops into my head. Trafficked women to the UK about/less than 2000. Mostly to domestic or labour. I think it was 84 to sex trade. No breakdown but the main part was clayed as' domestic' so think that's largely prostitution rather than stripping. Most frightening was the marketable value/lifetime revenue from of a trafficked woman, which measured in millions. Organised crime is very interested.
Caution. This is an illegal trade and data are very poor and oten alarmist. Error in measures far exceeds the data available.

Um. So the 'seeing women as commodities' thing kind of stings. Maybe strip clubs encourage that. I've argued they are a symptom not a cause and I stand with that. But I'm standing a lot less comfortably.

Im back from work. I have no idea other than she said she rung up and asked about working there as its something she had always wanted to do before the ex. Maybe she thought fuck it now hes gone im doing it. I can honestly say she likes it. I agree with everything LaQueen says on here which is the experience i have heard about from my friend. Someone books it or people are on work nights out, get pissed and say lets go to the club. My DB used to go with his friends. There is no way they could have danced for all the men in when i went briefly. I also agree with the comment someone made about a club and not being able to touch the girls. People pay a fortune to get in, a fortune for a drink and some pay £25 for a 3 min dance.

And i went to a party once with male strippers. They were getting groped and touched by a load of pissed woman, it was quite embarrassing imo

Hi ILCoreyH.
Yes, there is (according to my fairly brief research of the fairly limited primary research) more physical contact when the stripper is male. This was an interesting crossover with the power relationship perceived by the performers.
I must admit that before I did the research, I was thinking you were a man pretending to be a woman or no sex specified using a made up 'friend' to justify yourself. Then my research (limited etc) went and backed up everything you friend was saying. Even to the way she was saying it. I don't think I ever called you out on my suspicions cause I was a bit busy defending some (coughs) slightly inflammatory statements I'd made ... but I'd like to apologise for thinking it, anyway

Mitnageek- could you provide links to your sources, please? I am particularly interested in the one which says that strippers are usually educated to tertiary level.

You were talking about her feeling pity for (your phrase) "sad [men]" she danced for. That matched up with (paraphasing fom memory) "most of the performers said they felt pressured into getting clients to buy drinks and private dances. One rule you learn early is 'never refuse a table dance'

... and for how she said it - the condescending b***s comment.
Again this is paraphrased. I may hunt this one down to quote because it really resonated with me...
Because of social isolation resulting from responses to their proffession, many (female) dancers reported strong frienship bonds growing within the industry and a distancing from wider (non-deviant) society, with defensive attitudes against the judgemental mainstream.

My hubby went years ago, didn't bother me, wouldn't bother me, UNLESS he paid for a dance
That's a step too far
For what it's worth he was utterly skeeved out and mortified, said they were just vile and it was nauseating

This is female dancers. The (fewer) males have less social condemnation. The fs tend to become lesbian after performing for a time (from the strong bonds with fellow dancers, a building disgust with male customers and in one bizarre self-report because it helped her interpret sexuality more effectively in her dancing, improving her takings.)
The m dancers self report as heterosexual in the high 90s pct as I recall and this doesn't change with time in the industry. Brutally simplifying, one male dancer's report boiled down to "I love it I'd do it for nothing if they didn't pay"

I would ask him
Not to go - why can't he say he's ill and not go if he's so worried about loosing face x

This my personal view now ... to get a simple model of the typical strip club, think of it as a place where ambitious and greedy men with no moral compass pay women who feel a bit "iffy" about it to drug (sell beer to) some other men until they are uninhibited and reckless with cash, whilst offering to remove clothing for cash and if they buy more expensive drug (beer).

Mitnageek- could you link to your sources, please?