the school are using 5yos to accompany an epileptic classmate going to the toilet [long]

[owlbegoing]

Yesterday I had a call from the school saying my DD had shut her finger in the toilet door, she was fine they were just applying a wet hand towel to it. When I picked her up at home time her fingers seemed fine if a little bruised so I asked her how it happened as we walked home. She told me that Claire namechanged had needed to go to the toilet and my DD was asked to go with her as Claire isn't allowed to go by herself. I asked my DD if she knew why Claire wasn't allowed to go by herself and she didn't know. Later I remembered that Claire has epilepsy, which I knew from helping on school trips.
So I talked to the teacher this morning...yes they are using other pupils to accompany Claire on her trips to the toilet during lesson time as they can't spare an adult to go with her!
But it's ok as Claire goes into the cubicle by herself!!
Apparently during during lunch etc they do have an adult to go with her.
When I said that she's just as likely to have a fit while washing her hands as sitting on the toilet that didn't seem to have occurred to her!
The children aren't aware of Claire's condition so how traumatic would it be for a 5 year old to witness when it's just the two of them let alone if it happened during a lesson with adults around!
The teacher tried to justify it by saying that Claire hasn't had a fit in school yet
This teacher only started in January and this system was already in place so she didn't question it!

Would I be over reacting to try to speak to the head of EYFS about this?

If you've managed to read this far, thanks.

They are failing in their duty of care to both children, raise it.

It isn't that unusual for an epileptic episode to happen, but it could result in the other child freezing for a while, so not getting help to "Claire", who could if sustained a head injury etc.

This is really wrong.

More important than being traumatic for the other child, they wouldn't know what to do, may panic and not tell anyone.

If I was claire's parents I would not be pleased.

Minor point but schools should have the door guard do
It should be impossible to shut fingers in the door.

I would major on that if I were you.

The epileptic fit thing is really between the school/medical advice re safeguarding and the parents and not your beeswax unless this kid is going lots and your dd is missing lesson time.

It's nice the kids are aware and helping each other.

Have they been told what to do in a fit, ie get an adult and nothing else?

Thanks for replying Birds and Treacle I was amazed that they thought it was ok to do this.

Please be aware that not all epileptics fall to the ground and foam at the mouth although some do. Some fits are absence fits and are barely noticeable.

There should be a risk assessment here.

Tricky one, my niece has epilepsy and can't go to the toilet alone, ie she needs someone in the cubicle with her (( once got her head trapped during massive seizure )) Maybe staff are unwilling to do this ?? In the current climate I don't blame them tbh.

That's just my point thebodylovesspring the other children are clueless! All they know is that she can't go to the toilet by herself!

I would say it is the op's 'beeswax' if her dd is being given responsibility way beyond her years and capabilities.

It is also dangerous.

I would be very angry if my son's health needs were being put in the hands of other young children.

If I had a child with epilepsy I would not want the person who went to te loo with her in case she had a fit to be another 5 year old!

It shouldn't not be possible to shut your fingers in a door in a reception class.

I've just made an appointment with the head of EYFS so I'll see what she has to say.

TheBody she said the other children aren't aware of 'Claire's' condition.

If I was a 5yo and another child had a fit in front of me with no-one else around, I'd be terrified! You need to take this up with the head OP!

thebody, OP's daughter didn't know why the other child wasn't allowed to go to the toilet by herself, so it's wrong to say 'the kids are aware'. It also shows that there has been insufficient explanation of what might happen if 'Claire' has a seizure, which also suggests that the other children have not been trained in how to respond.

OP, this is really poor behaviour by the school. I suspect that they think that supervising Claire is just a formality, and haven't really thought about what will happen if she does have a seizure.

This is unacceptable, it places a lot of pressure on the child, as tgey are so young and do not have the information on the child that they know what's happening. Witnessing a fit can be scary for anyone, for a young child it can really upset them.

I am epileptic myself and have worked in care work with adults who have needs that include epilepsy. From that I can tell you that adults often don't deal well with someone unexpectedly having a seizure in front of them. There is no way I would consider having a child accompany this girl to be in anyway safe.

If I was her mother I would be furious. There should be an adult with her who has an understanding of the type of epilepsy she has and as well as the general first aid issue they should be able to record information like how long the seizure lasted and what type it was. An adult would notice things like an absence seizure or a partial seizure, a couple of these could mean something bigger is on the way. Knowing to expect a larger seizure could help insure the child's safety.

As an adult with epilepsy I can tell you that bathrooms are the worst, a small space with far too much to hit your head on. She is probably more likely to get injured in the toilets than in the classroom.

the other children won't have been made aware, because it shouldn't be any of the other children's business.

Excellent point, thebodylovesspring, epilepsy can take many forms.

ds's preschool have had to have first aid training specific to seizures, to be aware of what to do.

yes, there are over 40 different types of seizure, but no one knows what types 'claire' has, and if it has been deemed unsafe for her to go to the toilet alone, one would assume that 'claire' may need assistance if she has a seizure

I would not be happy with that, either as a parent of Claire, or as the parent of a child accompanying her.
It is a lot of responsibility for such a young child.
What if Claire has a fit and the child panics / freezes and it delays getting her help?
What if something happens to Claire and the child blames themselves for her being injured?
Claire deserves to have good support in place, in the form of an adult who can get her help / ring an ambulance if needed.
The other children have a right not to be placed in a situation where they need to be her emergency support.

It is good that the children are aware of Claires condition, and are able to be extra support within the classroom / playground where teachers are in the room / area, but may not see immediately. Beyond that it is unfair to all concerned.
You are right to want to voice your concerns, starting with the head teacher. I don't think they are adequately safe guarding Claire or her class mates.

Whilst it isn't the childrens responsibility to accompany Claire to the toilet, what is the answer.
She is at least for now experiencing a mainstream education, it is a shame that there aren't people employed to do this during the school day.
Maybe a parent will have to accompany her in future.

crumbs it is freaky enough for an adult when someone has a seizure let alone a kid. one of my colleagues does it from time to time and has bashed her head a few times now.
I would complain to the school.

To add to my last message, after a seizure people can be distressed or confused and can therefore behave in unexpected ways.

If the little girl comes round and is distressed she may ask her classmate not to leave her preventing her from getting an adult. She may be confused and wonder off while the child is getting an adult or she may be shouting/agitated which would scare her classmate.

My husband could tell some stories of how difficult I am to deal with after a seizure, he is obviously an adult, he knows when the seizure is coming, he has a lot of experience in dealing with it and none of it is new to him but it is still difficult for him. I can't imagine putting that one a child to deal with. It isn't as simple as 'go and get a grown up'.

Is it possible that 'Claire's' epilepsy is very well controlled and that the whole toilet thing is the someone panicking about risk assessments without enough knowledge?

I have a very sensible 4 yo dd. if she saw a child having a fit I'm not sure what she'd do - she might go and get help, she might hide, she might cry on the floor, she might try to "wake her up".

I'm fairly certain she would not check the time to ensure how long the fit lasted for, ensure that she wasn't in any immediate danger or put something under their head to ensure their head does not hit the floor.

Which is presumably what the accompanyer is supposed to be there to do.

I also think that sending two together is lulling the teacher into a false sense of security. "Claire's been in the loo for over 5 mins now - I'd better check she is ok" vs "Claire and Susie have been in the loo for over 5 mins now - I must have a word with them when they get back about not messing about in there"

Do you have contact details for Claire's mum - if I was her I would not be happy.

I know they take medication on school trips and a family member always helps. If the toilet thing was just them panicking about risk assessments then why do they only apply it when it's convenient?