the school are using 5yos to accompany an epileptic classmate going to the toilet [long]

[owlbegoing]

Yesterday I had a call from the school saying my DD had shut her finger in the toilet door, she was fine they were just applying a wet hand towel to it. When I picked her up at home time her fingers seemed fine if a little bruised so I asked her how it happened as we walked home. She told me that Claire namechanged had needed to go to the toilet and my DD was asked to go with her as Claire isn't allowed to go by herself. I asked my DD if she knew why Claire wasn't allowed to go by herself and she didn't know. Later I remembered that Claire has epilepsy, which I knew from helping on school trips.
So I talked to the teacher this morning...yes they are using other pupils to accompany Claire on her trips to the toilet during lesson time as they can't spare an adult to go with her!
But it's ok as Claire goes into the cubicle by herself!!
Apparently during during lunch etc they do have an adult to go with her.
When I said that she's just as likely to have a fit while washing her hands as sitting on the toilet that didn't seem to have occurred to her!
The children aren't aware of Claire's condition so how traumatic would it be for a 5 year old to witness when it's just the two of them let alone if it happened during a lesson with adults around!
The teacher tried to justify it by saying that Claire hasn't had a fit in school yet
This teacher only started in January and this system was already in place so she didn't question it!

Would I be over reacting to try to speak to the head of EYFS about this?

If you've managed to read this far, thanks.

My daughter has a severe seizure disorder, which atm is controlled and I agree with lilcat. I wouldn't be happy if I was Claire's mum either. Presumably the teaching/support staff are epilepsy trained? And trained in giving rectal diazepam or buccal midazolam if necessary? For a lot of epileptic it can be a matter of minutes before emergency meds need to be administered
:(

Please don't all be frightened of epilepsy either. It's something that's actually quite common. Most people who have a seizure, have a seizure fairly quickly and come round and as someone mentioned earlier, there are different types of seizure, they are not all tonic clonic.

This is certainly absolutely wrong. I should raise a concern with the class teacher and then with the head and the governors and the local authority. This practice should immediately stop. I wonder what that great institution Ofsted would have to say about this.

If it were a sibling or best friend who were aware of her condition and knew what do if she had a seizure, it would be fine. If they were open with the whole class and everyone knew to run for a teacher if anything happened, it would be fine.

Sending a five year old who has no idea that something could happen and who won't know what to do if something happens is outrageous and potentially dangerous.

But..... the school should have access to TA funding and one of these should be allocated to Clare for her loo trips. It is, or should be, a total non issue. Sadly, it's not as if epilepsy is so rare no one knows what to expect. Make waves, tell Clare's mum. Help her get Clare adequate support!

And do bring up your daughters fingers. Theoretically, they should not have been able to get squished in a toilet door. If the school still has old fashioned doors then they need to update them as soon as possible - again there will have been funding available for this at some point!

YANBU in the slightest. If I was Claire's mum and I found out about it, I would kick up a fuss. It's not safe for Claire if she does experience a seizure and not safe for the other children.

Please let us know how you get on with the Head of EYFS, owl.

An alternative view here.

We have a boy of a similar age with epilepsy at school- let's call him 'Dave'. Dave has a best friend 'Kevin'. They were at school together when Dave had his first seizure, and it was Kevin that alerted staff that Dave was not well. Since then, Kevin has been Dave's 'buddy' and accompanied him to the toilet and on errands etc, with the full knowledge and agreement of both sets of parents. Kevin knows that if Dave has a seizure, his job is to shout for help or to go and fetch an adult (there are a large number of adults in the school who are trained in administering Dave's medication). Sometimes Dave has tonic-clinic seizures (the stereotypical fall to the floor jerking kind), other times he has absence seizures. Kevin has witnessed both kinds and is not fazed by it.

Although in an ideal situation, it would be an adult accompanying Dave at all times, in practice this isn't possible. Yes we have funding for TAs, but Dave doesn't need a full time TA, only when leaving the classroom. It's impossible to predict when he will need the toilet, and while we have a TA in every class, there are times when other children need help (toilet accident, first aid, or the TA could have simply popped out to fetch something). Allocating a TA full time to Dave would mean that other children are potentially missing out on support that they need.

So I don't think there's anything wrong in principle with the pupils buddying another pupil with epilepsy.

However all parties should be giving informed consent. All parents should be in agreement, and the children need to be aware of what might happen (in an age appropriate way) and understand that they are to fetch help, not try to help themselves.

If Dave and Kevin's parents are fine then that is probably the best solution whilst they are together.

But in this situation, Clare doesn't have a Kevin.... so the school should utilise whatever staff they have, any TA will do, doesn't have to be specific to Clare.... they can still do that, can't they? Assist with loo breaks, 1st aid situations, etc, when necessary...

Was this an emergency one off?

I can't believe anybody, let alone a teacher who presumably has to regularly complete risk assessments, would think that they had covered off the problem of sending Claire to the toilets alone by sending her with a 5 year old who knows nothing about epilepsy.

In the Dave and Kevin situation, would 5 year old Dave really be able to sta.rt timing when Kevin's seizure started, if a particular type of seizure, be able to ensure he was in the correct position, deal with the fact the Dave may have wet himself as the result of the seizure....etc.

As it is in the op's case, her dd has no awareness of why she was sent to the loo anyway, so not a great way of supporting the child. The school needs to find another solution.

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I wasn't suggesting the OP was unreasonable, my post was in response to the posters who were implying it was never reasonable to buddy pupils and a TA should always be used. In this particular situation, the buddy system works well because the boys were good friends before Dave started having seizures, and Kevin therefore has quite intimate knowledge of Dave's epilepsy- certainly more intimate than the staff who have only known Dave as matter of months.

nomama no, the TA doesn't have to be specific to Claire. However, in a school like ours with a high proportion of SEN students that don't have a statement/attract funding, there simply may not be the staff available. In Dave's class, there are 2 TAs, as well as Dave there is a child with a physical disability, and one with ASD (who can be a danger to other children as well as themselves). If the child with physical needs is already being toileted by one TA, and the child with ASD has run off meaning the other TA needs to follow, and Dave needs the toilet, who is going to help? The teacher needs to supervise the rest of the children. Sending another child to fetch another adult means that another class could be left short, and there just isn't the funding to have a 'spare' TA just in case Dave needs the toilet at an inconvenient time.

hazeyjane no, 5 year old Kevin can't time Dave's seizure. However, a good estimate can be obtained based on the time the boys went to the toilet and the time Kevin alerted staff- he can be trusted to raise the alert pretty quickly (within say 10 seconds of a tonic clinic seizure starting). Dave's medication is administered after a length of time measured in minutes rather than seconds.

Kevin can't ensure Dave is in the correct position- but no one can until Dave's seizure has stopped. You do not attempt to put him in the recovery position until then. And an adult wouldn't be able to prevent Dave falling to the floor either.

Kevin can tell the adult that Dave isn't answering him (in fact, Kevin is much better at spotting if Dave is having an absence seizure than the teachers), or has fallen, and can deal with Dave wetting himself- in fact one of the early seizures (before epilepsy was diagnosed and the boys were very young), Kevin covered Dave with his coat so Dave would not be embarrassed, with no prompting from an adult.

I am watching this thread with interest, as this is the solution the school have come up with for my DD too. I am not happy with it but was told by school it was the best they could offer as they do not have the staff to cover taking her to the toilet. I do not know if the other girl's parents know though.

When I was young - probably about the same age a lady used to have regular seizures - this was at church where she played the piano. I was terrified and used to dread her standing up to go out incase she fell on the way. ( NOte there were adults present who used to help). It scared the shit out of me even when it was explained to me what was happening and that she had her meds etc. I can still see it / feel it now over 30 years on. This person was a regular local around the village and we were all told to alert an adult or the nearest neighbor if we saw her bike - and not her.
Ok Now I can be far more rational / understanding about it - In fact when a lady had a shaking / seizure fit near me a few years ago I can calmly remember what we had to do. Ok all children are different however this sits in my memory very clearly.

If it were a sibling or best friend who were aware of her condition and knew what do if she had a seizure, it would be fine

The person freaked out most by my DD's epilepsy is her older sister. No way would I want her to have to take charge if a seizure occurred, even though she has seen it many times before and knows (in theory) what to do. You cannot underestimate just how scary it is for someone to witness, even adults.

Really inappropriate - no adult would accept having a bloody 5 year old accompanying them to ensure their safety, so why should Claire just because she is a child?

Op yanbu this is unacceptable for Claire and for the other children . She should be being helped by a trained adult .

My DS is younger (almost 4) but he would be useless in an emergency. He'd be more likely to panic and cry than go and fetch an adult.

OP you say you know the girl has epilepsy, but do you know if she has grand mals? or absences?

because unless you know quite a lot about her condition, you don't have enough information to comment.

If the seizures were absences, then surely it would be unlikely that it would be written into a healthcare plan to be accompanied to the toilet?

If the child needs someone to accompany her to the toilet for safety, then regardless of what her condition is, the parents of the child being used to accompany her need to know what is being asked of the child. Of course the OP can comment!

the school are asking various children to do this, when an adult in not available. not the OPs daughter every time this girl needs the loo.

How does that make a difference?

If lair is in the cubicle by herself then another child (or even an adult) with her may not be much help anyway. If the door is closed and opens inwards then they might not be able to get in to her

My DS was asked to be a buddy for another child at the age of 9 to go with them when they went to the toilet etc. the child felt that they would prefer another child to go with them rather than an adult and my DS comes across as caring and sympathetic and agreed to do it. The other child was relieved he said yes and he went to have a discussion with the teacher/head and the nurse in the community that covers the school. We talked about how he would react if he found the other child on the floor and he was happy. Thankfully it never happened.

I would say reception is too young

thescience - if the OP is concerned about it taking her out of class.

alternatively maybe everytime the teacher could leave the class with a TA and help the girl herself. instead of different children helping their classmate occasionally.