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AIBU?

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Original poster

the school are using 5yos to accompany an epileptic classmate going to the toilet [long]

221 replies

owlbegoing · 08/05/2014 11:43

Yesterday I had a call from the school saying my DD had shut her finger in the toilet door, she was fine they were just applying a wet hand towel to it. When I picked her up at home time her fingers seemed fine if a little bruised so I asked her how it happened as we walked home. She told me that Claire namechanged had needed to go to the toilet and my DD was asked to go with her as Claire isn't allowed to go by herself. I asked my DD if she knew why Claire wasn't allowed to go by herself and she didn't know. Later I remembered that Claire has epilepsy, which I knew from helping on school trips.
So I talked to the teacher this morning...yes they are using other pupils to accompany Claire on her trips to the toilet during lesson time as they can't spare an adult to go with her! Angry
But it's ok as Claire goes into the cubicle by herself!! Angry
Apparently during during lunch etc they do have an adult to go with her.
When I said that she's just as likely to have a fit while washing her hands as sitting on the toilet that didn't seem to have occurred to her!
The children aren't aware of Claire's condition so how traumatic would it be for a 5 year old to witness when it's just the two of them let alone if it happened during a lesson with adults around!
The teacher tried to justify it by saying that Claire hasn't had a fit in school yet
This teacher only started in January and this system was already in place so she didn't question it! Shock

Would I be over reacting to try to speak to the head of EYFS about this?

If you've managed to read this far, thanks.

OP posts:
TheScience · 08/05/2014 15:53

The issue is putting a 5 year old in charge of the health needs of another child with a potentially serious condition. It doesn't matter whether it happens occasionally or every day, it's still not acceptable.

Original poster
owlbegoing · 08/05/2014 15:57

I've spoken to the head of EYFS...on the fingers being trapped in the door situation she is only aware of it happening twice and is going to speak to the caretaker to have a look at it.
With regards Claire being accompanied by a child to go to the toilet during lessons this should not be happening. To which I told her that it's been happening since before Christmas. She said that she'll be talking tomorrow to the specialist teacher (I forget what she called it) and the class teacher before the weekly meeting (which is also tomorrow so I think she might have her days confused.)
At home time I told Claire's grandmother about the trips to the toilet when there is no adult supervision. She knew about it and had spoke to the class teacher previously about it as she's not happy. Hopefully something will be done to ensure Claire's safety.

Have just asked my DD if Claire had to go to the toilet during lesson time. She told me that she did and another child went with her! So despite my telling the class teacher my concerns at 9 this morning they still continued to do it! Shock
I don't know why I'm shocked actually as they've obviously continued after Claire's family have spoken to them!

OP posts:
SaucyJack · 08/05/2014 16:00

No offence OP- but I kind of hope you're a troll. Expecting one small child to supervise another in the toilet is ridiculously unsafe- not to mention horribly undignified for both of them.

TheScience · 08/05/2014 16:15

Another poster has said their own child's school has suggested the same "solution" Saucy.

Original poster
owlbegoing · 08/05/2014 16:19

Unfortunately not SaucyJack Sad
Though you have misunderstood me slightly. Claire goes into the cubicle by herself (and closes the door) while the other child waits by the hand basins. Claire then washes her hands and they return to the classroom.

OP posts:
YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 08/05/2014 16:21

thescience - I doubt a parent helping on a school trip was told much about the girl's condition as that's not their business beyond very basic knowledge - and if so I have not seen it referred to on this thread.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 08/05/2014 16:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
owlbegoing · 08/05/2014 16:33

The reason I knew about Claire having epilepsy is because her nan told me on one of the trips that we both volunteered on that involved a lot of walking that Claire tired easily due to having it.
I know trolls are prevalent at the moment but I am not one!

OP posts:
YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 08/05/2014 16:38

so does she have grand mals?

Original poster
owlbegoing · 08/05/2014 16:43

I don't know what type she has. The only thing I know is that she currently has a graze on her back which her nan believes she got yesterday whilst she was on the toilet from "falling." Claire doesn't know how she did it though. I didn't ask what type she has as it's none of my business.

OP posts:
YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 08/05/2014 16:46

I don't know what type she has its a very varied illness.

TheScience · 08/05/2014 16:49

Why do the details matter? All the OP needs to know is that this child has a health need that means someone needs to accompany her to the toilets, and the school are using 5 year olds in that role. That is totally inappropriate.

badtime · 08/05/2014 16:51

Why does it matter, You?

thebodylovesspring · 08/05/2014 16:53

Op so sorry just came back and I misread your post. I thought the children had been told about the epilepsy and what to do ie get an adult.

No this isn't acceptable I agree and not sure where the safeguarding here is for either child.

TheScience · 08/05/2014 16:53

If a child has a condition, any condition, that means they need constant supervision then that needs to be provided by a reliable person who understands the condition and knows how to react to an emergency situation.

A 5 year old who doesn't know their friend has any medical needs and has no idea why they are going to the toilet with them is definitely not that person.

Original poster
owlbegoing · 08/05/2014 16:55

The only reason I used the word type was because hazeyjane wrote up thread "there are over 40 different types of seizure"
If I phrased it wrongly then I apologise, it wasn't intentional.

OP posts:
YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 08/05/2014 16:59

if she needed constant supervision, she would have she own TA.

we don't have the facts....but don't let that stop your outrage.

slithytove · 08/05/2014 17:17

OP is allowed to have a say in whether HER daughter supervises another child for health reasons. She doesn't need to know all the facts when it is HER child.

zzzzz · 08/05/2014 17:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shouldnthavesaid · 08/05/2014 17:24

I dealt with my mum's fits daily at that age, I'd run to get a neighbour or call the doctor. Had abscences, myoclonus, tonic clonic and complex partials. All four I have always found unpleasant, especially since I know milder ones can lead to a big one.

I hated it, I was terrified as a child. Can write more on that but I don't think it would help. I wasn't told what was happening, I wasn't told how to deal with, just went on instinct and did so until I was 19 and someone actually taught me.

Seizures are frightening for anyone to watch - even if you've had experience. I've seen GPs, nurses, go to pieces with them and they've generally seen dozens.

For a child who hasn't experienced seizures at all, to suddenly see one would be very frightening indeed. The school need to organise a proper care plan for the child whether that be an alarm for her, an adult to accompany her, etc. They certainly should never use a child as a carer of any sort. Very, very wrong and unfair on everyone involved.

badtime · 08/05/2014 17:24

You, if there is no real problem with Claire, why does she need to be accompanied to the toilet at all?
And what help do they expect a 5 year old to be if they don't even tell them why they are 'helping' or what they should do?

Either Claire needs to be supervised, or she doesn't. If she does, it should be by someone who can assist in some way, and knows why they are doing it. If she doesn't, why all the faff of sending another child to the loo with her anyway?

Pipbin · 08/05/2014 17:28

My question is this: most people have said, and I agree, that another child should not be accompanying this child.
However, what is the alternative? Ideally the teacher should have a TA, and the TA should go with her. But what if she doesn't? The teacher can't go. And poor Claire is left waiting while an adult is found.

shouldnthavesaid · 08/05/2014 17:31

You do need an adult with someone having a TC from onset to at least a good 30 minutes after.. I've dealt with over time a nasty cut to the head, biting of the mouth causing quite copious bleeding, vivid and very frightening hallucinations (mum insisting there was a soldier sat beside me, once shouting there was animals attacking her..), post seizure vomiting, head injuries, minor skin injuries from scratching, bruising.

And you can prevent a fall - most seizures will have at least about twenty seconds warning or so in which you can gently grasp the person and slowly help them to the floor. You don't just leave them to drop. Even if they're falling most people will be quick enough with reflexes to grab them, or to block the fall, or to alter it so they can't land up banging their head. This should be even easier with a child.

Not to mention you need to be able to pad around the person if they're in such a place where they're likely to end up injured/friction burned etc.

All stuff that should really be in action immediately from seizure onset, not stuff that kicks in after a child's called for help and a first aider's arrived.

Same goes for non generalized seizures when one considers the risks of them - unless they can be proven to be very brief, an adult should be with the person if they're having uncontrolled episodes. Not least because they can quickly develop into a generalised seizure but also because they pose a danger - person can be distressed, aggressive, can wet, might be eating/drinking and start choking, etc.

zzzzz · 08/05/2014 17:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime · 08/05/2014 17:37

slithytove maybe knowing the facts would be a staring point.

badtime her epilepsy might not be anything like lying on the floor fitting. it may just involve 'absences' which are minor and can last a few seconds. someone sitting next to you could have one and you might not even notice.

Ideally the teacher should have a TA which is actually a bad way for schools to spend their budget from a wider educational perspective.

I dunno maybe the people who know all the facts, are able to make better judgements than those that don't? Grin Grin Grin

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