the school are using 5yos to accompany an epileptic classmate going to the toilet [long]

[owlbegoing]

Yesterday I had a call from the school saying my DD had shut her finger in the toilet door, she was fine they were just applying a wet hand towel to it. When I picked her up at home time her fingers seemed fine if a little bruised so I asked her how it happened as we walked home. She told me that Claire namechanged had needed to go to the toilet and my DD was asked to go with her as Claire isn't allowed to go by herself. I asked my DD if she knew why Claire wasn't allowed to go by herself and she didn't know. Later I remembered that Claire has epilepsy, which I knew from helping on school trips.
So I talked to the teacher this morning...yes they are using other pupils to accompany Claire on her trips to the toilet during lesson time as they can't spare an adult to go with her!
But it's ok as Claire goes into the cubicle by herself!!
Apparently during during lunch etc they do have an adult to go with her.
When I said that she's just as likely to have a fit while washing her hands as sitting on the toilet that didn't seem to have occurred to her!
The children aren't aware of Claire's condition so how traumatic would it be for a 5 year old to witness when it's just the two of them let alone if it happened during a lesson with adults around!
The teacher tried to justify it by saying that Claire hasn't had a fit in school yet
This teacher only started in January and this system was already in place so she didn't question it!

Would I be over reacting to try to speak to the head of EYFS about this?

If you've managed to read this far, thanks.

Winklewoman - sorry - I was unclear - when I said teachers supervise break time on a rota, I meant that they give up their break time to supervise break time in the playground, and the rota makes sure everyone takes a fair turn, not that their break times are staggered. In most schools, this probably means break duty doesn't happen too frequently for anyone.

I assume they can take a cold drink out with them - in the olden days, you used to see them with mugs of tea or coffee, but I assume that is no longer allowed!

Winkle - Seriously? The Head Teacher (who did NOT teach in a tiny school) had to have his break at exactly the same time as every other member of staff so the best way of ensuring active, outside time was to put a 9 year old in charge? Really?

And btw, I was at my school working during this period - you know, helping out with, for example, lunch duty, break duty, seeing pupils, helping to ensure that they are safe, well taught etc.

I am very, very hard on this attitude from teachers precisely because I AM a teacher and I see the damage this kind of attitude can do to pupils.

OP - Any news?

(NB - said Head Teacher was gone within a year and the new one is back having coffee and chatting to pupils in the playground, taking her "break" at a more suitable time)

No update. To be fair I'm not expecting the school to tell me anything about Claire's case. I'll ask my DD if she saw a child go with Claire to the toilet during lesson time or an adult. If it is a child then I'll be informing her nan as the head of EYFS should have spoken to the class teacher today.

Stanley, essentially your child's school is saying that the only basis on which they will have your child in school is if you accept that they cannot keep her safe and that she will regularly be in potentially life-threatening danger. Also, by insisting on sending another child with her, they are regularly taking that child out of the classroom, which is illegal in relation to her right to education.

I can't emphasise enough how incredibly unlawful the whole thing is. Push them hard!

RoseFerne, what sort of school are we talking about? Most state primary schools have perfectly adequate, if not always generous, playgrounds; the only ones I know with very tiny play spaces are free schools in unsuitable buildings.

Pleae read what I said. I certainly did not say that the best way of ensuring active, outside time was to put a 9 year old in charge. In fact I said it was madness.

I think it is a poor way of maximising a HT's time to be pinned down to trot the kids to and fro across the road once or twice a day. If staff breaks cannot cannot be staggered for whatever reason, the children should make do with the playground.

Anyway as the old head us back, nothing to be worrying about, though I don't quite get whether she stays with them in the play park across the road or as you say in your last post, in the tiny playground.

It has to be said that I'm not surprised but again today Claire was accompanied by a child on one of her trips to the toilet. She also trapped her finger in the door. I told her nan though she was aware that it may have happened again as when she asked if an adult was present when Claire trapped her finger the TA couldn't say

Have you refused permission for your child to accompany Claire to the toilet?

I think the school should have been open with the parents with what they were doing. I think if the parents of the dc with epilepsy was happy for their dc to be accompanied to the toilet by another dc and not an adult then it is okay. However, the school should of asked the parents of the potential buddies if they were okay with this.

I would be okay for my dc to be a buddy to help another dc with epilepsy but I would want to know about it.

mirmar I've not yet because I thought that when the head of EYFS said that it shouldn't be happening and that she'd talk to both the SENCO and class teacher that it wouldn't happen today.
I'm not sure that I'd trust the teacher to actually take any notice of me refusing permission to be honest! If they head of EYFS says it shouldn't be happening and it still is then it's shocking!

the head

Winkle - ordinary state primary school. Tiny playground (tiny school) in a remote corner of the UK. Zebra crossing to further, grassy, play area with some playground equipment and a small area for running around.

I am not sure how accurate your survey of playground is, to be honest. 2 of the 3 round here have very small playgrounds indeed but pupil numbers very very low, so not a huge problem. But, I feel Heads should take responsibility for ensuring this is done properly. Pupils are escorted to the toilet, kids across the road etc. It is not to be done by pupils.

She stays in the tiny playground, watching them cross the road and in either of the 2 open spaces. The road between is very narrow so not a problem as long as some adult has eyes on them they are not far away.

I think it is a poor way of maximising a HT's time to be pinned down to trot the kids to and fro across the road once or twice a day. If staff breaks cannot cannot be staggered for whatever reason, the children should make do with the playground.

I don't follow this. Are you saying it is OK for children in the playground to be left on their own and supervised only on the basis that the staff will have the occasional look out of the window from the staffroom? Surely not? Even if it is a small school, they wouldn't be on hand if a child were injured, and the bullies would soon learn that they can get away with anything by conducting operations out of sight of the staffroom window. Therefore, if there has to be someone supervising in the playground, why can't they supervise them going over the road?

In every school I know the teachers do one break duty a week. If this school only had 20 children then I expect the only had two or three teachers. That should still be enough to cover breaks though, but with two duties a week.

At what age would a child with epilepsy not need an adult to accompany them to the toilet? Does the adult go in the cubicle with the child or wait outside the cubicle?

Do children with epilepsy go on play dates?

My kid doesnt need to be accompanied anywhere, and goes on playdates. Hes well medicated and his seizures are well controlled, unless he is ill. Or during a growth spurt as his meds need adjusting which can take time.But essentially hes like any other kid.

Nennypops, no, I am not sayng children should be left to play completely unsupervised, clearly there should be some arrangement for this, whether using the play park across the road if it is deemed to be essential, or in the playground if not. However I do not think the head should be doing the escorting duty every day, occasionally yes, but she should have some better arrangenent for a daily event.

I have no idea why the staff breaks cannot be staggered, but I did feel Roseferme's initial post indicated some indignation at their having a break at all.

We have all stated our positions on this, arguing is unlikely to change them, this has become a parallel thread to the real issue which is that of the OP's daughter, so maybe we should leave it at that.

It really all depends on the child who accompanies.

My dsis has epilepsy and has had seizures when with my dcs, once I was upstairs on the phone and dd1 who was 3 was with dsis. Dsis had a seizure, dd called me to say " aunty is vibrating" so I could help her immediately.

Ds1 however, aged 6 was upstairs at my mums watching tv, dsis had a seizure and instead of calling somebody he hid under the bed and nobody realised she had been ill for at least 25 mins.
When we asked him why he had hidden he just said he was too scared to do anything else.

Good grief. This is highly dangerous. I have epilepsy and I know how hard it has been for dh when he has witnessed seizures.

This is a clear breach of the school's basic, basic duty to keep children safe - both Claire and the accompanying child/ren.

OP, suggest you contact the British Epilepsy Association and ask for their advice, on behalf of your dd who may well be the accompanying child. I am sure they could give the school some very clear guidance.

Or call Social Services because this school is putting Claire and the other children at risk. At high risk of severe physical, mental
and emotional harm.