to feel screwed over by our society, can't afford a home, can't afford children, can't afford car

[Lauranda]

I'm in my early 30s, had a great up bringing, do a job I like and got married last year. I do feel very lucky.

However where we live in the south east, all we can afford to rent is a badly converted 1 bed flat with a damp problem. Can't really save much and are very economical with our money so can't see ever affording anything bigger and could never bring up a child here.

My parents managed to get a large 4 bed Edwardian house on one sallery when I was growing up and dads job level was about the same as dh. No way could with double sallarys afford anything near that lifestyle.

Parents keep saying my time will come, but looking at the statistics that seams very wishful thinking. Parents have kindly offered 15k to help get a house but to be any use would need much more than that and to pray interest rates never rose much.

Am I alone in just being unable to afford children even though we both work full time?

It is much more normal now for people not to live where they are born. And with transport, it is really easy to live a bit away from parents, but still see them regularly.

Yes I am amazed when i see what students think are essential in rented accommodation. we didnt have a dishwasher until 2 years ago, and plenty of my friends still dont. Don't have sky, you can get loads of channels with freeview now anyway. Dont buy take out coffee from coffee shops.

I know some people really are very poor. But I do see friends, some of whom are earning more money than me, but appear poorer. They are the ones spending their money on lots of little inessentials everyday. It all adds up.

We didn't have a phone either though to be fair, my parents still don't have a landline.

And neither them nor us have sky or a dishwasher. But I don't feel 'poor'...maybe because I have a tv Even if it isn't flat screen!

If I were young and just starting out, I wouldn't even consider the SE of England as a place to settle. I am a Londoner, but I arrived in London before the property boom and I don't understand why people continue to come in the face of these prices.

I really feel for young people these days, but surely there's a great life to be made elsewhere?

This generation has it harder because of decisions made by those with power. So yes, we have been screwed over by society. It's a harsh way of putting it but it's true.

15 years a go my mum put down a 4k deposit down on a 60k house. I bought a house 2 years ago and I had to put 18k minimum down on 90k and even then only ONE mortgage company would accept.

I didn't save 18k. XMil has savings. DM got a loan for 'home improvements'. We Told everyone it was a gifted deposit and the solicitors received a bank transfer from xmil and a statement of her savings growing. I received a bank transfer from my mum. XMil then received a cheque from me. DM receives £250 for 5 years. One big devious circle.

There's no way one wage is enough. Two was a struggle.

I agree children aren't expensive. You can get newborn essentials cheap enough. Nursery costs are extortionate but it is possible to work around them. DD doesn't seem to grow that fast and her food isn't much more than mine.

Where abouts in the southeast are you? I live in the southeast (in Essex), there are a lot of young families here, some of them seem to only have one working parent as well. We are within commuting distance from London with a lot of 2 and 3 bedroom homes well under £200,000.
No 4 bedroom Edwardian houses here though. They just don't exist in this area.

Fan couldn't agree more. My parents sound very much like yours, same age, location and background. I don't really recognise the descriptions of wealthy baby boomers I read on mn, they're very different to my parents and their peer group.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2069287-The-poorest-half-of-the-Uk-own-3-of-the-wealth?

This is much of what this thread is talking about too.

I have joined a group that a poster called Clock linked to yesterday.

The thread and link helps explain why the country is partly as it is now.

I am emotional because it is where I grew up and my family have always lived in London.

It saddens me that people are being moved out (and they absolutely are.) I feel strongly that people should be able to live near family and friends if that is what they want. It makes for a happier more cohesive society.

People are not asking for the earth. Most people just want somewhere adequate to live and to get on with it in peace. It angers me that this is accepted as not possible in some parts of the country.

It's hard to tell if you really have been screwed over by society or not. If by your early thirties you're looking to buy a house and have children, you have had time to do some saving, or enough training to get your qualifications to a level where you could be earning decent money.

You don't say how much you spent on your wedding, if you've had expensive holidays or how much you have tried to save. Just that your DH has a decent job and you have one that you like.

It could be that you're being screwed over because you live in such an expensive area, but it could be that with a bit of effort to save and a small move into a slightly cheaper area that you could have managed to save a deposit and just haven't because you chose to spend on other things.

We live in SE, and yes it is expensive, but we budget like crazy.
When we moved in to our house we got it for a bargain as quite frankly it was falling apart. ( leaking, very bad state of repair) I was 7 months preg and we had one grotty loo, and no bathroom at all, and no useable kitchen. (I remember strip washing at the kitchen sink, and bathing DC 2 in a washing up bowl)
It has taken us 15 years to turn the old crumbly monster in to a home. I have started my own business, which is doing ok, DH has stayed in same job ( no pay rises, but it is a steady income)
We have always managed a holiday. ( not 5* luxury)
Now we have a 6 bedroom house that we have turned in to a home little bit by little bit.
Yes it's tough, but better than many have it. (We have 4 DC now)

I'm sorry that on a personal level you would like to live in London but can't afford it, thebogQueen. But I don't see any evidence that it makes for a 'happier' society for people to stay in one location for their life.

I really doubt many people on here look at their children and assume that they will be living round the corner in thirty years time. With the massive increase in people going off to university now, it's very normal to move away at 18 anyway. Surely part of building resilience and confidence in our children is preparing them for a life where they may be living and working , well, practically anywhere in the world.

Not everywhere in the SE costs a fortune. Parts of Kent for example are dirt cheap. We live in E Anglia where you can buy a 3 bed terrace in some areas for £70K. If I were you I think I'd move out to the closest area you can afford, and then your husband could maybe live with his/your parents a few nights a week to begin with, until he could move his business to where your new home is. I know it's harsh, but the whole economy is based around London and the SE (thanks Thatcher) and so will make prices high.

I agree janey up to a point.
But if you frequent the Mental Health Board for example, you will see lots of parents who start with the phrase, we live a long way from family. We have little support.

And I don't think we have any 'right' to the same type of house that our parents had, however hard that is to come to terms with.

No, but I think its hard to grow up in a nice house and to feel that's the norm and that one day you'll have the same - and then realise that there is no bloody way you'll possibly ever be able to afford that. Of course, it's a first world problem and compared to many we, in this country, are astoundingly fortunate, but I think each generation expects to do at least as well as their parents - and this generation coming up now are the first one that simply won't. Prices, particularly for property in the south-east, have risen waaaaaay more than wages, putting even quite modest family homes out of many people's reach, including people with good educations and decent, well-paid jobs.

Not to mention the Elderly Parents board, where posters start, we live a long way from my mother/father/inlaws

I'm not sure our parents had it as easy as you think.
They lived a more frugal lifestyle than most people do today. Mortgages were hard to come by. Remember most people were at work by 16, but stayed living at home and saving until they got married. When they got married people often lived in rented or a small flat to start with. And I think they expected to go without and save really hard for a good few years before they could buy. Today, it seems to me, that he young want to travel (costly) and eat out (costly) and buy takeaway coffee every day. There does not seem to be an expectation that 20 someone's should save or go without.
Many of out parents could afford bigger houses than we can. Even then though, most spent less on consumer gadgets and holidays than we do today. And yes, often only 1 person worked, but that meant there was no childcare costs.

Even in the south east,MIT is possible today for people to buy a house. It helps if they are financially savvy and save hard. Someone mentioned upthread that once married, they lived in just a room in a house, not a whole flat,so they could save more. It is necessary to make sacrifices.

I have work colleagues who are in their 30s and say they cannot afford to buy. However, in the 10 years I have known them, they have had at least 2 exotic holidays a year, keep buying lots of clothes and having £100 nights out. It's not surprising that they have no savings, but they cannot seem to see the link.

Someone upthread mentioned that you need to see now as a stage in your life and a stepping stone to where you want to be. Living elsewhere where it is cheaper maybe a good idea. It does not have to be forever. Saving hard into the long term is a very good idea.

Oooh, tell me more, boris! Like the sound of E Anglia.

chickydoo we had the same thing - living in one room, eating dinner sat on the bed. We only had furniture we'd found in the street at one point - bit better quality stuff now but still all eBay :)

London is a SHOCKER for house prices, but if you can scrape together enough for a place somewhere, so many other things are cheaper. Lots of access to markets for fresh food at excellent prices, very cheap to eat out if you know where to go, so many free museums and art galleries, and great parks. I don't find transport too expensive here, and you don't really need to run a car because the tube is so good. Plus you don't need your heating on as much!

People have been moving out of London for years though, since at least the war. It isn't just this generation that is having to do it. Many of the people in my town came from London originally.

I've no desire to live in London anymore. But it saddens me that people's idea of London is that of a place exclusively for the wealthy.

Of course some people will want to move away, go to university, live in Kuala Lumpa or Lewis. But many, many more people want and need to live within their community. This is the same throughout the world.

I left and went to university, travelled and now live in Scotland.

But I grew up on an estate in London where families were housed in the same streets by the council. The understanding was that this enabled people lower down the ladder to help themselves through mutual support.

But now social housing is knocked down and luxury flats built in its place. People are shipped out far from public transport and amenities, family and friends

Yes it is the lack of social housing that is the real issue. I moved out of London 25 years ago as I knew I would never be able to afford to buy, but there was more social housing then for families.

I would be interested to hear again from the OP.
Have they ever had savings? Are there things they can do to boost their income, such as one of them working evenings too? Are there ways they can reduce their expenditure? Have they looked at other places to live?

I'd basically like to know what options have they explored and what have they been doing to get themselves into a better position. It is possible, but needs work. And £15k deposit is a great gift. If they live somewhere cheaper and save hard for a couple of years, they would have enough for a deposit ina. Cheaper area of the country. £15K might even be enough in some places depending on what they earn. But tbh, why does anyone think they are entitled to buy a house when they haven't amassed some savings? Surely the 2 things go together.

When I graduated from university DH and I would have loved to settle near Liverpool or Manchester but this was the Thatcher years, jobs in the North were scarce and we had to move to the South-East for work. Your situation is not a new one and sadly we can't always have everything we want exactly where we want it.

Years later DH's career had progressed and we were able to move back to the North-West. We have benefitted from the years of scrimping because of high mortgage and property prices down south so now have a nice family home up here. But guess what? DS graduated from uni and there are no jobs up here so he has now had to go to London. DD will soon have to decide her path. The days when families could all stay near each other have long gone.

While I have sympathy for you and can see your point, we felt exactly the same in our 20s and 30s (late 1980s, early 90s) as we struggled with property prices booming in the SE and far higher mortgages and interest rates than our parents ever had to face. Having survived all that we are hearing all the same concerns from the younger generation who seem to think they are the first ones to have these problems. Sometimes it is not easy but we survived and you will too

Yes I am wondering too if the OP has any savings. People have always had to save to buy their 1st flat/house.