to feel screwed over by our society, can't afford a home, can't afford children, can't afford car

[Lauranda]

I'm in my early 30s, had a great up bringing, do a job I like and got married last year. I do feel very lucky.

However where we live in the south east, all we can afford to rent is a badly converted 1 bed flat with a damp problem. Can't really save much and are very economical with our money so can't see ever affording anything bigger and could never bring up a child here.

My parents managed to get a large 4 bed Edwardian house on one sallery when I was growing up and dads job level was about the same as dh. No way could with double sallarys afford anything near that lifestyle.

Parents keep saying my time will come, but looking at the statistics that seams very wishful thinking. Parents have kindly offered 15k to help get a house but to be any use would need much more than that and to pray interest rates never rose much.

Am I alone in just being unable to afford children even though we both work full time?

[Goblinchild]

'It's fantastically annoying when the same posters pop up to hector others.'

Somewhat like having Eton-educated politicians, with no RLE of living on or near the breadline, telling us what we should be doing to improve our lives.
Marry someone rich. I'm going to remember that advice in my next incarnation.

[JimbosJetSet]

We moved an hour away from where I grew up, and my parents still live, in order to buy an affordable house. My parents are still able to help out with childcare - they have the DCs once a week, we meet half way between us in the morning and evening to exchange the kids There are ways around it.

[Thurlow]

YANBU. It's bloody hard. We bought a house two and a half years ago and lucked out (with help from family), I know we'd struggle to find anywhere decent now.

Moving to the other side of the county isn't the simple answer some people seem to think it is Both of you trying to find new jobs - on the assumption that your job exists in another part of the country where houses are cheaper, and will pay you a salary that works out more per month including living costs? And move away maybe from your whole family, your friends, your support network?

There probably are less nice places in your vicinity that could be affordable, maybe with a longer commute, though that in itself isn't always helpful. But there might not be. This finger-snapping "well, just move to Scotland then!" really gets my goat.

YANBU to feel screwed and stuck. But take a good look at the figures. There's never a good time for DC and there's never enough money, but there is probably a way to make it work if you want to.

[magpiegin]

We are currently in the process of buying our first house together. We are in our early 30s and earn an average wage, and yes, have been saving for the past decade. We don't live in the South East but are having to move from the expensive town we currently live in to a less desirable area, but in doing that we have been able to afford somewhere decent.

Op, you are lucky that you have been offered £15k help and if you are in your early 30s you are going to have to start making some decisions in the coming years. You probably have to accept that you can't have it all (live in the SE, the 4 bedded house etc) but you need to decide what is most important to you.

[janey68]

I think it's over emotional to talk about 'scattered families' and 'fractured communities' just because adults don't continue to live their entire life in their parents pockets.

It's also inaccurate, because Living geographically at some distance does not have to mean a family aren't loving and supportive. You can be in daily contact anyway through Skype, texts, face time, plus of course actually making the effort to visit!

We lived in a village when our children were tiny. It was interesting to see how the movers and shakers in the community tended to be the incomers. While we were there, a drama group and book club were started by people from outside the area, and many other incomers ran or helped out with other community initiatives. And alongside this there were some families who'd lived there for generations yet never lifted a finger in the community, and whinged about their aunt, or brother or grandparent who lived along the road.

However you try to dress it up, expecting to buy a house and have a career in the location you happened to be born in is a sense of entitlement. Do it if you want to and can afford to, but frankly you may have just as happy or even happier a life elsewhere.

Also, IME when people post about wanting to stay living in the same area as their parents, the subtext is usually that they expect to have childcare on tap and free babysitters for a night out. They may talk about wanting a close and loving relationship but funny how the idea of working at that close and loving relationship from a bit of a distance isn't nearly as appealing!

[Louise1956]

Could you move in with your parents? The lady who was next door to us where we used to live has her son, daughter in law, and three grandchildren living with her, and they all seem very happy.

[whatever5]

If people on this thread aren't being that sympathetic to OP it's because the majority of people in this country can't afford to live in or near London, nowadays not just her "generation".

[TheBogQueen]

Ha ha

we did move to Scotland. It is certainly cheaper for housing, we live in a good area, fabulous school, great friends and neighbours.

But the job situation is pretty grim.

[traininthedistance]

brokenhearted I also live in the SE (and no, can't just move easily as my job isn't very portable nowadays - shame I didn't have a crystal ball as a teenager in the 90s to know that the economy would completely change when I started training for it). Even 2-bed flats where I live are 300k+, a 15k deposit would barely pay for the fees, costs and stamp duty. The local shared ownership possibilities need a 40k deposit plus fees, costs and stamp duty of nearly 5k just to own 40 percent of a 2-bed flat!! And for those you can't have a household income of over 60k, so the people they're aimed at can't actually afford them. They can't sell them at all.

To buy outright you'd need closer to a 60-70k deposit plus fees, costs and SDLT of about 10k+. So 15k might be better than a slap in the face with a wet kipper as it were, but it's not coming close to an actual house deposit in many places in the SE!

[appleaddict]

You won't need a big 4 bed house if you limit the size of your family. DH and I are early 30s and saved for a decade to buy our first home, a 2 bed flat in London last year. It will be fine for us in the long term as we will have just one dc. Don't think we could consider living in London if we had another, with the cost of childcare, transport, clothes, activities etc. We also only rented a room in a shared house rather than a 1 bed flat while we were saving up, which allowed us to save a decent deposit. You could consider doing the same while you're saving. We had a cheap registry wedding and didn't get any handout from our parents.

Also agree with pp about looking at shared ownership, and the help to buy scheme as well. We didn't use these but several friends have done (with similar size deposit). There are still some cheap bits of London if you definitely want to stay - e.g. Barking/Woolwich.

[TheBogQueen]

janey68

This is exactly what I mean. People have swallowed the idea that simple things like 'childcare on tap' from grandparents, or being able to live within your social network, is somehow this unobtainable rarified entitled existence. It's not! It's normal life.

What the hell is this country doing? Why does everyone just tug their forelock and accept it?

(goes off the plot the revolution)

[RunnerHasbeen]

If your parents are nearby and have a four bed house, would moving in with them to save up be an option?

I think you need to figure out what to do soon, it would be even worse to just stay put on the treadmill expecting things to change and leave kids too late (it is possible to spend the equivalent of a flat deposit on unsuccessful IVF).

I moved away from my parents and when they retired they followed me and spend loads of time with their GCs. You should at least talk to your parents about your options, if a close GP-GC relationship is important to you.

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

I have a slightly different view on this which is no doubt due to my class and location (nothern w/c) but no doubt several people will pile in and tell me I'm wrong and this wasn't/isn't how it was for them.

But...this so called baby boomer thing isn't across the board for everyone so don't make fall into the trap of thinking it is just you. My parents are 50's born and have worked hard all their lives. Sometimes for others, sometimes for themselves. They brought up kids without ever having enough bedrooms to go round. I can remember the excitement of getting a car in the 80's. I went abroad for the first time in my teens. We had periods of time as a kid we had no tv (not to mention no lecky!) as it broke and we couldn't afford a new portable.

They are now nearly reaching retirement age and are okay. But okay. They sold their beloved 3 bed semi recently to downsize to something they can genuinely own, as they were morgtgaged still at 58.

[aermingers]

I moved from the South East to Sheffield in order to be able to afford children. It's tough doing it away from family, I miss them tremendously and all the friends I moved away from.

The only friends I have with children down south are either very wealthy or they had children as single unemployed mothers and were housed by the council. (Most have since gone on to work). Apparently you can't even do that anymore as there are no council houses left and you will have to bring your kids up in temporary housing like a B&B.

Sadly in the SE the standard of living for all but those at the top of the tree is falling to almost Victorian standards.

[weatherall]

Move.

Could you persuade either set of GPs to move to stay close by?

[TheBogQueen]

We are mortgaged til 68!

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

Sorry...posted too soon.

They bought into thatchers dream. Before then people like 'us' (my family) had now expectation of home owning.

I'm not having a pop but things have changed. Expectations have changed. Even now I raise a wry smile listening to some early 20's people I know house hunting...all genuine comments heard "It didn't even have a dishwasher!", "Obviously the bills are alot...sky is 90". Again, I am not critisizing individuals but expectations are different of what constitutes essential these days and this will make it harder. There is a difference between essential and ideal.

[kukeslala]

I have not commented on this thread till now as did not want to look boastful or condescending, by posting my experience.

I brought recently (4 years ago, and house prices in this area have stayed the same near enough), when we decided we wanted to buy we made a plan and budget plan and were dedicated to our plan.

People make different choices every day, this does not make other peoples choice right or wrong, however in some peoples cases they say they want something, make different choices and then complain when they don't have what others do, but forget that others have made other sacrifices to get there.

Some people do not have the same circumstances and/or opportunities, and I'm not talking about people who generally can not make the choices.
But people that can should remember they are making a choice, if they don't like the outcome they should think about the choices they are making, weigh up what they want and decide.

£15,000 is a lot of money and would make a lovely start to a deposit, you are very lucky op to have this.

Sometimes when you start to save and the end amount seems far away break it into smaller chunks.
With that £15,000 you have a great headstart!
Another thing that spurred me along and really got me thinking about every penny I spent was I read that for every £1 I did not put down in a deposit, it would cost £2 to repay and I would have to earn £3 to cover that original £1, would make me really think if I wanted to buy that trashy mag or could I check out the gossip on the internet.
You might find it helpful to look at your income and expenditure and see if/where you can make changes, sometimes its helpful to get someone impartial to look at it also? Money saving expert is a good website.

Finally I do try and remember on the whole if I think I will or wont do something, what I thought usually happens.

[Badvoc]

It's insane.
Good arrive by Caitlin Moran in last weeks times about buying a house in the SE...read it!
I live in the midlands.
We live in a det 3 bed house with a nice garden. Quiet area. Village location.
Since we bought this house 2.5 years ago it has "gone up" in value by approx £40k.
We would no longer be able to borrow as much as we did now - despite no change to our circumstances.
The only houses we would have been able to afford if we were looking now would be 2/3 bed ex council properties.
Insane.

[curiousuze]

OP, I understand. We're kids of people who had a comfortable life with not too much effort, and sometimes on one salary. But you've got to look at that generation as an anomaly - my grandparents certainly didn't have that situation!

Which part of London are you looking at? We moved to NE London 5 years ago because it was cheap. (It isn't now, it's gone effing NUTS.) But a bit further out in our direction, into Essex or Hertfordshire is much cheaper and still on a tube line, or overground lline to Stratford or Liverpool street.

[janey68]

TheBogQueen - you're being very emotional about it! Why is it 'normal life' in 2014 for people to still live in the same town they were born? I would have thought with the way society has developed, with better travel, communication system Etc its actually normal to expect people to not live where they happened to be born.

No forelock tugging here either. I just don't see that staying with the same social group you had when you were 5 makes for a better life. IME it can actually foster a narrow outlook on life. And before you ask, yeap I have a perfectly loving relationship with my parents who live 100 miles away, and I'm still in touch with a couple of friends from primary school... We email and meet up now and then, we don't need to be living on the same road to sustain a friendship

[curiousuze]

Oh and I had to move from Scotland to London in the first place because I looked for a job for 2 years and couldn't find one. it is difficult.

[Badvoc]

Fan....god, yes! :)
My dc don't believe me when I tell them we didn't have a car til I was a teenager.
Or a phone.
Or computer.
And as for a dishwasher, sky, etc...they were what "rich" people had.