to feel screwed over by our society, can't afford a home, can't afford children, can't afford car

[Lauranda]

I'm in my early 30s, had a great up bringing, do a job I like and got married last year. I do feel very lucky.

However where we live in the south east, all we can afford to rent is a badly converted 1 bed flat with a damp problem. Can't really save much and are very economical with our money so can't see ever affording anything bigger and could never bring up a child here.

My parents managed to get a large 4 bed Edwardian house on one sallery when I was growing up and dads job level was about the same as dh. No way could with double sallarys afford anything near that lifestyle.

Parents keep saying my time will come, but looking at the statistics that seams very wishful thinking. Parents have kindly offered 15k to help get a house but to be any use would need much more than that and to pray interest rates never rose much.

Am I alone in just being unable to afford children even though we both work full time?

[PussInBrogues]

i can see why your pissed off

[rabbitrisen]

Some people were not brought up with enough confidence to move away, which is not their fault.

[revealall]

Rabbitrisen.

Bit smug.
I would love to move away because I've been here forever but...very desirable town,great schools, lovely countryside, friendship network, close to airports, close to coast.
Despite moving around a lot I always come back because I've not found better.
Perhaps because I've not met the bloke that moved me. Which seems to be the reason most of the people I know end up somewhere else.

[MelonadeAgain]

Some people were not brought up with enough confidence to move away, which is not their fault

I think that's true. The excuses on here for not moving for work are very telling. I can't help thinking about what the Anglo-Saxons, Jutes and Vikings achieved by boat centuries ago, to find more land to live on, and wonder how for some, graduate trainees moving for jobs in their minds equates with them being part of the travelling community and living in caravans.

Has to be one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. I would be bored out of my mind if I'd stayed in the same area I grew up in. Mind you, you could spot by first year of secondary school the ones that would be stuck there all their lives...

[ScarlettlovesRhett]

Revealall - is that not the best reason to be back where you started though? You're there because you want to be, after moving away and trying other places out.

Some places are perfect and I can see why people would never want to be anywhere else.

It's the 'poor me, no work, no houses but I can't leave because I can't be away from my extended family' that I don't understand; I think rabbit had a point about having confidence to move - my parents had done it so it was natural for me to do the same iyswim.

[Apatite1]

Yes, the housing market is outrageous, but that's not society's fault as a collective! Sorry if that point's been made a zillion times already. None of us can afford what our parents did, no one can argue with that. But we need to lower our expectations (sometimes massively!) and try to carry on. For us, the compromise has been no kids, which means both of us can work crazy hours and our downtime is proper rest and no school fees ever.

It's shit, I agree but nothing else we can do but get on with it (that doesn't mean I'll ignore any dinosaur who claims the housing situation is no worse now than 40 years ago...)

[ChocolateWombat]

About the, some people find it very hard to move issue;
That is true. Some people have grown up where their extended family have been in 1 place for generations. It is not the norm for them to move.
However, the first move is often hard for everyone.
Other things can be hard too, but in order to build the best life for themselves, people have to do the hard thing. Many people work a ridiculous number if hours in order to earn enough. That is hard and they might not have been brought up to do it, or want to, but they see it as necessary, so do it. Other people commute 3 hours a day in order to work and live where they want to. They probably weren't brought up to do it either and don't want to, but see it as necessary.
So whilst I appreciate it might be easier for some to move than others, I think that we all have ago do things we don't like. If we take the attitude that we don't want to move and therefore we won't, well that is fine....but we do then have to accept the consequences which might be limited jobs or limited house size. And how about building a 'can do' attitude towards these things rather than a defeatist one? The fact that other people have not moved, or not saved, or not trained longer or whatever does not mean we cannot. It might be harder, but it is possible to fight against the difficulties.

[EllieQ]

In response to 22honey's comment about only knowing two people who don't live in the same place as their parents, I live in Yorkshire and I think about 75% of the people I know have moved away from where they were brought up.

However, I suspect it's as much to do with who you know as well as where you live - a lot of people I know came here for university and stayed after they graduated. Most of the people I knew at university had moved away for university - there were only a couple of people on my course who were living at home and going to their local university (late 1990s - I expect it would be different now). Most of the people where I work needed a degree to get the job, so most of them had left home for university and not gone back after they graduated.

I think that once you have moved away for university it is easier to stay away - it becomes the norm for your peer group. If you hadn't done that, the prospect of moving away for a new job is probably more daunting to you (even if you don't have children so aren't relying on family for childcare etc).

[rabbitrisen]

Slightly as an aside, but I always find it both sad and hilarious, that gang members are afraid to move out of their area, sometimes only moving around a few streets.
They promote themselves as heavies, when really they are scared people - hence their need for gangs in the first place.

[StarDustInTheWind]

sometimes it helps to have an incentive to move away - I come from a remote Scottish island.... wet/windy and future prospects were - become a farmer or a fisher"person" ... or marry one....

700 miles, an education, career (or 2) and 3 shitty bedsits/flats/apartments and 2 houses later I'm in my "3 bed almost-where-I-want-to-be, but I may just settle" home... aged 50...

we could not have dreamed of buying a flat let alone a house when we started out... bedsit/apartment was the aspiration for that first step out of living at home/shared house at tech/uni... in the early 80s- a lot of people also bought with friends- so 4 of you starting work got together and bought a house, (not a 4 bed either - folks had to share) you don't hear of that so much now, but it was the only way on to the housing ladder for some, and people were prepared to do anything to get on that ladder...

[DwellsUndertheSink]

OP, while you are young and childless, you have the opportunity to get on, to work 2 jobs, to save up and get your toe on the property ladder. Your only responsibility right now is to yourselves.

My DD works as an ad hoc waitress over the weekends, (weddings) , and has a Sunday job. She is at college doing very hard subjects, so grafts really hard in the week. SHe puts in a lot of hours. She still managed to save a lot of money - £300 a month on average, more over Christmas and summer holidays. Imagine if you saved an extra £2-300 a month each - you would soon have a sizable deposit to put down on a bigger house.

I think it comes down to what my granny used to say - The harder I work, the luckier I become.

[whatever5]

Nobody can afford to live in London or the South East unless they already own a house there. It's not just the young who are affected by this.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

OP I think you need to focus your energy on figuring out how to save more. this is your only option. have you looked on moneysavingexpert?

[Lauranda]

Lol at all these people saying that someone that wants to live relatively close to their parents is someone brought up to be scared of moving and is working class and wants to live in the same street as their family. Haven't got a clue.

To the person that said why did my dh set up biz here, because we dont have a crystal ball and were not expecting house prices to rise 30%+ in the worst recession in most peoples lifetime!

[ScarlettlovesRhett]

Why lol?

Why at 30+, with no children and a 15k monetary gift can you and your partner not move to a slightly cheaper area?

[NCISaddict]

Whereabouts in the South east do you live? It's a big area, I live in the south east but having moved 10 miles in the past 5 years have a much cheaper house.
Also what sort of business does your DH do and what sort of job do you do? Answers to these sorts of questions may make it easier for people to give targeted advice.

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

I have sympathy up to a point but it is the woe is me 'worst recession in most peoples lifetime' where I lose interests. It is okay to feel sorry for your own situation but seriously, it is this idea that we are the most hard done by generation that is getting me.

I know I have referred a lot to how things have changed since our grandparents generation but seriously things have never been equal for all in any generation.

The previous generation didn't all have it easy. I am in my 30's like you but my memory of childhood is clearly not the same as yours. Try growing up in 1980'sNoerthern mining towns and this is seriously not the worst resession I have every seen. Ypu cannot imagine, buying a property wasn't peoples concern it was having a roof over your head at all. I remember sitting repossesions and women collecting food in the town centre to feed the hungry. I am in my 30's too! I am not playing a violin here, I am bloody lucky, we have jobs and have never been unemployed. Have a house that needs doing up but I don't care about that, it's home and we are happy.

Instead of look how easy it was for 'our' parents, have you considered that maybe you were lucky and your parents did well? I can promise you there are many others of your generation that remember economics through childhood differently. This is by no means the worst I have seen my community by a long stretch.

[Lauranda]

This isn't a woe is me, was being melodramatic in the title.

Could move to a cheaper areas that is quite rough, sign up for a lifetime of debt with government handouts while interest rates are at a historic level but seams too risky.


The worst recession since the 1920s is pretty much agreed by economists. Maybe the full affects havbent been felt yet due to the printing money and artificial ly keeping house prices high.

[GooseyLoosey]

OP - I feel for you.

Nearly 20 years ago, I bought a flat quite like this one: www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-45628193.html for 74,000.

At the time it represented around 3 times my salary. The flat is now in excess of 475,000 which is around 8 times the salary of someone in an equivalent position today.

I sold the flat after 5 years for 145,000 and bought a house for 210,00 which I again sold after 5 years for 410,000. I bought a house 7 years ago for 460,00 which I spent 100,000 on and it is now worth 800k+ (and is only a 4 bedroomed house).

I don't see how my children will ever be able to afford to buy a house like the one they have grown up in and it depresses me. dh and I have already concluded that we will need to sell our house and give the dcs a significant amount of money to enable them to buy anything at all.

[ScarlettlovesRhett]

Do you actually want to improve your situation, or do you just want to moan about it?

Either is fine, your choice obviously, but if you do nothing to help yourself you will find that people around you quickly tire of listening to how it is everything else to blame for your situation.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

Could move to a cheaper areas that is quite rough, sign up for a lifetime of debt with government handouts while interest rates are at a historic level but seams too risky.

but if you don't want to take a risk then, renting is a better option as you don't end up owning something with a large debt attached to it.

most people who have bought a house, have taken a risk. and it did not work out for everyone. you are in the same situation as the rest of us are/have been in.

[Lauranda]

It seams you define "taking a risk" as buying a house in what looks like an over inflated bubble.

I'm happier risking our money by ploughing it into dh biz.

Its Franky ridiculous that so many people feel themselves as savy investors just by buying a house and wanting to Make money for doing nothing. Never been a fan of pyramid schemes.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

so now is not the right time for you to buy- which is sensible but I am having trouble understanding what you are unhappy with?

[ScarlettlovesRhett]

But you were originally bemoaning the fact that you couldn't afford kids, mortgage or car - even with a 15k hand out.

What is it you actually want?

How are you actually screwed over?