to feel screwed over by our society, can't afford a home, can't afford children, can't afford car

[Lauranda]

I'm in my early 30s, had a great up bringing, do a job I like and got married last year. I do feel very lucky.

However where we live in the south east, all we can afford to rent is a badly converted 1 bed flat with a damp problem. Can't really save much and are very economical with our money so can't see ever affording anything bigger and could never bring up a child here.

My parents managed to get a large 4 bed Edwardian house on one sallery when I was growing up and dads job level was about the same as dh. No way could with double sallarys afford anything near that lifestyle.

Parents keep saying my time will come, but looking at the statistics that seams very wishful thinking. Parents have kindly offered 15k to help get a house but to be any use would need much more than that and to pray interest rates never rose much.

Am I alone in just being unable to afford children even though we both work full time?

[NearTheWindymill]

The other thing is that it won't be long before incomes rise due to inflation, interest rates rise in response and the housing market cools off in response. It's all cyclical. Now is a very bad time to buy in my opinion.

[verdiletta]

I do feel sorry for you op. I hadn't realised how crazy prices are in the SE until I compared the lifestyles of 2 sets of friends, one in Edinburgh and one in outer London. The couples have similar incomes and one school age child, but Edinburgh couple own a huge house, both drive expensive cars and have amazing hols and London couple really struggle, no hope of affording a house any time soon (and have a hellish commute too).
I completely understand why you want to be near your family, that's pretty reasonable. And there's no point comparing life now to life in 1980 as some have done- you just want to have thesame opportunities as people in other parts of the country, and a modest house of your own near your family and a family of your own isn't a huge ask.

[traininthedistance]

Oh god it's the thing about the takeaway coffees again. I can't be bothered to reproduce it here, but on previous threads I have pointed out with actual figures that it would take eighty, yes EIGHTY years of not having a takeaway coffee a day to save even the deposit for an average house in the SE, never mind paying for the rest of the house. I think the figures come out as you'd need to save the price of sixteen three-quid takeaway cappuccinos per day to save a deposit within five years. House prices are now so unaffordable that saving those "luxuries" will never get you even close to enough in some areas of this country now, so you might as well not bother. If you need three times your entire gross income just for a deposit to put down on a flat/house that costs 8-10 times your income in the first place, saving the cost of a few nights out isn't even close to the starting position. Those suggesting it is haven't got the first clue about what's happened to this country's economy in the last 15 years.

[ChocolateWombat]

I think that anyone who can afford to buy in the south east, always stands to make money on property IN THE LONG RUN. As long as you won't need to get at your cash, demand will always exceed supply, so prices will continue to rise. Certainly, buying at some points results in bigger gains than others, but over say a 10 year period or longer, I would expect prices to rise.
That fact is depressing for those who cannot buy now. It also means that those who move away are less likely to be able to afford to move back. I do think that for the younger generation, unless they are given money or inherit, London will increasingly become the place for the rich to live. But there are lots of other lovely places to live too.

[Raskova]

Janey, I have to ask... Do you live near your parents?

I live with just DD, XP and a handful of reasonably close friends. I don't think it's that hard but there are times it's impossible.

We had to book date nights weeks in advance and they had to be 50 miles from out house so Mil could look after DD. There's no one to look after her if I need a break. I work full time and have to pay full fees as no grandparents to help.

Some days I think it doesn't matter and others I think it's crucial

[ChocolateWombat]

Train, you are right that simply not having takeaway coffee wouldn't make much difference. However, it is partly indicative of an attitude towards money.
I realise that for many people, even if they cut back on absolutely everything, they will never be able to afford the save a deposit for London. There are others though, where there are 2 earners on decent money, who COULD have saved a decent sum by their 30s by living at home/in a room, not having expensive gap years, regular £100+ nights out etc. Many people could save £500 to £1000 a month between a decent paid couple if they tried and had that mindset.
I accept that prices have risen faster than that and it is very very difficult
for people. I simply think, that many don't do the things they could to improve their position. Okay, they may save as I suggest for 5 years and find London still isn't going to work. However, they will have a good deposit for somewhere cheaper and make a good start there. I think lots of people, decide to blow the lot, because London seems unattainable. £0 savings doesn't get you anywhere in London, but it doesn't get you anywhere elsewhere either.

[expatinscotland]

These threads all go the same way: it's all your fault. You need to stop having holidays, takeaways, a telly a d the everything will happen. You need to get another job (because they are all over the place) in Hull.

If I were you, I'd leave the country. Not only is is a rip off, but people's attitudes suck.

[Pimmsoclocknow]

I live in an expensive part of the SE in early thirties. Everyone I know who lives in a house (rather than a flat ) does so because inherited money following death of their parents.

And every single one would in a heart beat move into the tiniest rented flat if it meant their parents could meet, or even know about the existence of their grandchildren.

As others have said you need to decide your priorities. Being a hour or so drive from grandparents is not very far and they could easily do childcare. Every single part of the SE is less desirable parts which are much cheaper.

Also, you simply don't know when and if you will be able to have children. A decade of infertility problems - now that is heartbreaking.

[traininthedistance]

chocolatewombat I think you simply don't realise the reality of rent/living costs etc. for most under-35s today. Live at home/in a room, at the same time as getting on your bike to move to where the jobs are.....are you seriously suggesting that a professional 30-something couple with above-average incomes should live in a room for ten years and that sounds like all is tickety-boo with the economy? Is there not something a bit odd going on when high-skilled people who are comfortably in the top decile of the UK income distribution can't even afford to buy entry-level properties?

Wake up, people, it is not about how today's yoof unreasonably want a looxury lifestyle and also a 4-bed house to boot. It's about young people, often highly qualified and earning what should be a good salary, working like crazy in this country being leeched by landlords and employers as cash cows for rentiers and then finding they get blamed as well for the "unrealistic expectations" of wanting a basic home and a family, just so they can be economically productive members of society. How dare they!

I mean it couldn't be that central bankers have stoked a property bubble in order to preserve a fiction of asset values so that Western banks don't collapse. Or that economic policy (and voting patterns) since the 80s has been directed at siphoning off short-term profits at the expense of future generations, now could it?

Goodness, no - it must be those entitled young people and their expensive tastes for cheap clothes imported from Asia and £30 per month smartphone all-inclusive contracts!

[TheBogQueen]

traininthedistance

[thankyou]

Young people are working so hard - I work with students who are flogging through testing degrees - nursing, teaching - while working nightshifts in a call centre to pay their rent. And yes they have phone contracts and probably get legless on a friday night, But not having an iphone contract is not going to make one iota of difference to their situation.

[Scarletohello]

It's all very well saying move to a cheaper part of the country but the reason those places are cheaper is because there are no decent jobs! I currently live in a city in the Midlands where you could buy a 3 bed house for £150k but there just isn't the work to support that. 1 in 7 shops in the city centre have closed down, there are very few decent restaurants and not much cultural life. I have 2 older sisters in their 50s who bought in London on average salaries in the 80s and now are virtual millionaires!

So YANBU!

I also have a friend in East London who lived in a council flat. He's now emigrating to Australia and is buying his flat for £75k but has been told by estate agents he will probably be able to rent it out for £350.00 a week! Is that fair..? Screwed over, yes indeed IMO

[traininthedistance]

TheBogQueen not the mention that in a world where you need Internet access and email just to find and be available for jobs (and may be required to be constantly contactable by your employer at your own expense, as I am), that a smartphone is often a lot cheaper than a landline rental plus broadband contract plus the cost of a computer.

Lots of fields now headhunt employees via social media like LinkedIn, conduct job searches by phone, expect employees to work and be on email evenings and weekends, so this persistent fantasy of older generations that young people are "entitled" and profligate by having access to new technology, and should just live offline in a shed with a phonebox down the road to save money because that's how people lived in the 1970s, is just that, a convenient fantasy.

[turgiday]

Scarlet - You couldn't buy a house in London in the 80's on an average salary, without buying in very rough areas. I know I was there and moved out because I couldnt even afford to rent a 1 bedroom flat on an average salary.

[SpeedwellBlue]

Does it depend on what period in the 80s you were buying?

Did anyone see June and Leon on Gogglebox saying they really stretched themselves to get a mortgage for £2000?

[mrscog]

It's probably a mixture of things. It is hard for our generation (I'm 29), however, if you've got to mid 30's both been employed for 10 years etc. then I would question if you've been as sensible with money as you could have been. Obviously it's fine NOT to be sensible with money and have holidays, lots of boozy socializing, takeaway coffee etc. but if you do that through your 20s you can't then moan about a lack of a deposit in your 30s.

[curiousuze]

Ha, mrsdevere we live in the same area I seem to remember! I used to get sneered at for moving here to save money. I live in the Village as well dontcha know, I'm tripping over hipsters every time I go for a pint of milk...

[turgiday]

In was in London in the very late 80's, the private rental market was very tough and it was very hard even to find a room to rent that wasnt ridiculously expensive. I was paying £75 a week to rent a room in a shared house, in a fairly rough area, in 1989.

[Babyroobs]

Is there any chance you could move in with your parents or in-laws for a year or eighteen months and save everything you would have spent on rent. Might not be easy but is what a lot of colleauges kids have done recently in order to save for a deposit. It's what my parents did too to save a house deposit back in the sixties.

[Lemiserableoldgimmer]

OP, I live in SE London, a 20 minute commute from Victoria.

Take your parents 15k and do help to buy. You can get a 2 bedroom garden flat here for 158K to 190K. Is that do-able?

[curiousuze]

Oh I'm officially far too uncool to live here now mrsdevere. I actually feel a bit shy to go into the local pub these days because everyone is so trendy