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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if a lot of people who are Christians have had a rather nice life?

292 replies

stilllivingbythesea14 · 02/05/2014 22:33

I know I phrased that clumsily but I know a few Christians. They are nice people but very devout and pretty much always have been.

They are all white, middle class, privately educated, university graduates, plenty of money, nice jobs, one SAHM.

It must be easier to have faith in God if you've had a nice life? Hmm

I'd like to believe but I'm not sure I can.

OP posts:
madhairday · 03/05/2014 00:25

Bloody phone. You get the idea, anyway.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 03/05/2014 00:28

madhair, I'm sorry to hear that. Sad Anything we can do?

madhairday · 03/05/2014 00:28

princess you want to pop over to the philosophy and religion board for some jolly bumf bunfights of the type you describe Grin

madhairday · 03/05/2014 00:29

Not sure where the random bumf came from there

madhairday · 03/05/2014 00:31

Thanks LRD - am ok. You're helping me merely by posting interesting things on MN at midnight when I can't sleep due to Noisy Patients and buzzing drips. I am doing alright - only in another 5 or 6 days now.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 03/05/2014 00:34

Oh, then best of luck for the next few days. It sounds rotten, I'm sorry.

elliejjtiny · 03/05/2014 00:34

DH and I were raised in Christian households and are still Christian. We have been through 2 miscarriages. One of our children is disabled, another has 2 severe medical conditions. DH works full time in a not much over min wage job while I gave up my career to look after our children. It's not all roses.

Also in our church:
15% suffer from depression
20% have autism
15% are carers

madhairday · 03/05/2014 00:39

Thanks LRD

Ellie, your church sounds like what church should be. Welcome and inclusive for all, and doing it in such a way that people want to be there. I'd love to hear more about how it supports people with autism and carers etc as I am doing some research on enabling churches at the moment.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 03/05/2014 00:41

mad, a church I used to go to runs sessions for AA, if that's relevant? At the time they said something like 80% of AA meetings happen on church property. If that's true, it'd suggest a lot of inclusivity.

Thetallesttower · 03/05/2014 00:51

I don't know where you went to church OP with all these nice-looking young people (sounds lovey but not like our church!) The church I attend has lots of old people, people living on their own, people with learning disabilities, people who are disabled and can only attend by taxi/if they can get a lift and also a group of people who are now settled here but were asylum seekers. I think it is fair to say we are a motley crew. Even those who look 'ordinary' and like they have a nice life, many of them have endured a lot of suffering and difficulties, such as suicide, cancer, the death of a child and so on. We are missing nice young people though, so if anything we would love some of them to come along too.

I think perhaps you were musing on your own faith and it came over a bit wrong. I don't think you necessarily meant anything by it- and you are right to the extent that if you have an awful thing happen, your faith can waver or you can lose it, this is not unusual. I always think of that triple jumper Jonathan Edwards who was a Christian and apparently he lost his faith, although I don't know if that was in relation to anything in particular.

madhairday · 03/05/2014 00:51

Would really like to hear more about that as well LRD. Inclusive church - what I long for to be the case always.

elliejjtiny · 03/05/2014 00:52

Well, we always have the announcements after the 2nd hymn otherwise someone will have a meltdown. The sunday school (held in the afternoon, not at the same time as the morning service) is made up of about 60% children and 40% adults with learning difficulties. Feel free to PM me if you want anymore info and hope you get out of hospital soon.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 03/05/2014 01:00

I wish I knew more about it, but since it's so confidential all I know is that they run the sessions. They must be successful, though, or there wouldn't be continued membership.

I wish the Church were more inclusive in general, but I keep hoping we'll get there.

ancientbuchanan · 03/05/2014 01:30

Op, I think it can seem like it, partly through eg your experience at university and thereafter, partly the way the church is portrayed in the media, vicar of dibley, anyone, partly that the cofe used to be described as the Tory party at prayer, back in the days when.

But that ignores, as others have said

Wealth dies not protect you from tragedy. Think of that poor family where the mother has been charged with murder of her three smallest. I have no idea whether they profess any religion, but the point is that an apparently materially well off position is not necessarily happy making.

That there are a lot of v comfy atheists around. And with no imperative to give alms to the poor, they could well be comfier !

The Pentecostal churches are growing hugely. Many of their people are the reverse of comfortable.

The work of the London City Mission is with the poor and outcast, in particular.

The RC church has supported the cause if the poor in this country since Manning and Wiseman.

Justin Welby has been mentioned; he has declared concern about usury, especially affecting the poor.

And, anecdotally, I can tell you that the social profile of the congregation of the church I go to has altered a lot over the last few years. Fewer wealthy people, more multi ethnic people mostly English but some recent immigrants.

I would not presume to judge the individual state if any body's spirituality.

Finally, on faith. I think it can be a bit like falling in love and then going into a partnership. You have the first uprush followed by the honeymoon period.

It's then a slog for many people to keep going. If you expect that uprush of feeling constantly, you are almost bouind to be disappointed. You have to accept doubt as part of it, probably, and just continue, using the disciplines you have built up during the first rush of emotion.

Some people are very fortunate and have that inner conviction and joy all their lives.

Many don't.

The two best descriptions of those who don't imv come from writers who might not have had very much to say to each other, CSLewis in The Screwtape Letters, and St Therese of Lisieux.

I find it like an onion, many layered. I have layers if doubt layers of belief. They are often at war. And I go through phases too. I don't think it is unusual.

ancientbuchanan · 03/05/2014 01:35

Mad, sorry to hear. Yes, I know what it's like on a noisy ward.

I got comfort.from getting some of the chapllains round. It had a domino effect on the rest of the ward. We had the c of e, rc ,Buddhist monk.

The ward became a much follies place.

ancientbuchanan · 03/05/2014 01:37

Jollier ! Follies, perhaps, but so what.

Alisvolatpropiis · 03/05/2014 01:52

I have had a really nice life so far (there have been a few dodgy moments but overall), I don't have any faith. I don't consider myself an atheist because I find that so many atheists are passionate about it whereas my lack of belief is pure apathy, I don't believe and I don't care.

ZingWatermelon · 03/05/2014 03:38

ha!

the people you met probably had a nice life.

but there are people who live in very poor countries, oppressed, even tortured & prosecuted because of their faith.

people who are in prison because of serious crimes - they because Christians after they did horrible deeds.

and so the list goes on.

no, the more you suffer the more you need Jesus

ZingWatermelon · 03/05/2014 03:49

*they became

Chipandspuds · 03/05/2014 04:03

Erm....no.

One of my friends has a two year old son who almost died last year but thankfully had a successful liver transplant. Another friends Mum had a riding accident and broke her back and is now in a wheelchair for life.

They were both brought up in Christian households and have always continued going to church before, during and after these events. I wouldn't say they've had an easy time of it at all, but I think their faith has helped a little bit.

ToffeeMoon · 03/05/2014 04:07

I think you can never know. Being well-off financially, or appearing middle-class or even just always looking sunny reveals nothing in terms of one's basic happiness. My mum is quite religious and, whilst she has a "nice" life now, she went through some very hard times in her younger days: poverty, sexual abuse, loss of a parent very young, loss of a sibling. You'd never know any of that to see to her now. You'd think her very jolly-hockey, WI, tea with the vicar.

LibraryMum8 · 03/05/2014 04:11

Yabu. Like another poster said, every one has their problems.

nooka · 03/05/2014 06:06

It's a very ill informed OP. In general evidence suggests that (with the exception of the US) the more wealthy and educated the country the higher the rates of atheism/non belief. [[https://humanism.org.uk/2009/07/29/news-332/ This]] article talks about the close relationship between poverty and religion, and it's not really that surprising. It's relatively easy to not believe if you feel control over your life (a bit of an illusion but there we go), whereas if you have little control it can be comforting to think that someone is on your side and that your next life will be better than this one.

In the UK research is now showing that it's the traditional white middle class type of churches that are in decline, whereas it's in ethnic minority and urban communities that there is expansion. Given wealth patterns that means that the 'comfortable' people are much less likely t be active church goers.

Oh and on a personal front my siblings and I (who are white and middle class, private schools, university etc etc) were brought up to be Christians. Only my sister is still a Christian (very active too) and she has had by far the most difficulties in her life. The rest of us are atheists. I'm sure many would think on the surface that we all had 'nice lives'. My lovely ex SIL does not meet any of your criteria and has had a great many challenges to overcome but is also religious. On the grounds of my family I could come to completely the opposite assumption, but like your experience it is purely anecdote and therefore quite meaningless.

parentalunit · 03/05/2014 06:29

Substitute the word Christian with Muslim. Would you have posted this? Am I the only one disappointed to hear such a bigoted view?

Gennz · 03/05/2014 06:55

I don't think it's bigoted. I think there are are a wide variety of Christians and the ones you have met (OP) are probably not reflective of Christians as a whole.

I am nominally "Christian" (Catholic, though I don't practice) and so are almost all my good friends as we met at our affluent single sex Catholic girls' school. We have had, comparatively speaking, nice lives so far - from upper middle class educated homes with enough money to be clothed and fed and sent to good schools. None of us practice though, apart from the usual hatches, matches and dispatches. We are a self-selecting sample of people likely to be affluent and thus have easier lives. Do we count as Christians? Catholics aren't really happy clappers if that's what you're thinking of.

On the other hand my mum is one of the more devout Catholics I know - mass several times a week, feast days, daily prayers, etc - and she has had some very hard times in her life - her sister died very tragically, her daughter (my sister) died as a child, she's dealt with financial problems her whole life plus various other sadnesses. Despite this, she's never questioned her faith and it has been a crutch to her. I'm not sure this is a good thing.

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