To wonder if a lot of people who are Christians have had a rather nice life?

[stilllivingbythesea14]

I know I phrased that clumsily but I know a few Christians. They are nice people but very devout and pretty much always have been.

They are all white, middle class, privately educated, university graduates, plenty of money, nice jobs, one SAHM.

It must be easier to have faith in God if you've had a nice life?

I'd like to believe but I'm not sure I can.

Ok skinny I'll ask Mumsnet to delete it.

I'm Muslim, not Christian but as the common factor is having faith, I thought I'd add my thoughts.

I've always felt grateful for having lived an easy and good life. Having said that I've experienced poverty for months on end to such an extent that there were days when I was pregnant and had nothing to eat in 48 hours except a bag of milk. I have also suffered a physically abusive relationship and have been beaten until I've had bruises numerous times. I've experienced sudden death of close two family members in short space of time and have worked hard my entire life.

For me, the difference between having faith and not having it is that I constantly feel I have someone to turn to and something to look forward to in the next life. We believe that the difficulties of this world are transitory and that we will be rewarded beyond measure for everything we bear with grace in this world. That makes every difficulty in life so much easier to tolerate and face.

People often remark that I'm quite a positive, happy and enthusiastic person. I feel it's my faith that gives me that optimism in life and makes every negative a positive.

I'm not offended stillliving - I just disagree.

I am a Christian - practising

I am white, middle class, privileged and had afaith of sorts until I was about 30 when spirituality touched me and I just knew - not going into details here. I was also taken to stately homes, came from a far from devout christian background and struggled a bit with myself in my teens and twenties.

My son died nearly 17 years ago - he was with us for only a few hours. I would not have survived without my faith regardless of any other factor I can possibly imagine. I cannot describe how I did survive.

I know of many many christians who are poor, black, who have struggled, who have suffered adversity but they still have faith and are far jollier and more accepting than many of the white christians I know. I do not necessarily feel comfortable with their particular philosophy but for as long as it is christian in spirit I think it is good.

Your title doesn't in any way refer to the UK, or to the rather narrow sample of your immediate contemporaries or church-goers. It says Christians usually have a nice life. This suggests you are ignorant of the growth of huge pentecostal and Bible based movements in non-Western countries/continents with considerable poverty, such as South America (e.g. Brazil) or in Africa (e.g.in Nigeria). Many Catholics around the world welcomed the new Pope precisely because they believe he represents them, the poor and disenfranchised in non-Western parts of the world.

You looked around your own little world and have obviously come up with a reason you can't believe. I don't think faith is logical or rational in this way (see above), history teaches us that Christianity has often been dominant at times of extreme poverty, famine and so on but if this reason seems plausible to you as a basis for not believing, who am I to argue?

In other words, I don't think you have to justify your uncertainty about your faith, or indeed why others still have it.

Btw, I do think the ones who are expressing such strong indignance are overreacting. Yes, OP made an assumption and a naive generalisation but that doesn't mean she's trivialising or dismissing problems that Christians have had in their lives. She's just demonstrating her lack of experience and association with a broad selection of society.

I don't feel there was anything offensive in her post at all.

I am very committed to being agnostic/ atheist so have no personal axe to grind.

The most committed Christians I know currently, have nice lives (despite the fact they don't all come from nice backgrounds) because they have made good choices and worked at getting themselves to a good place. Some of them have shit upbringings, but they've chosen to find a better place to have their children in. I don't share their beliefs, but I can respect that having them makes them do generous things for others and generally make life better for those around them.

When I was growing up I encountered a lot of 'do as I say, not as I do' Christians, who were the ones who made me think religion was an evil thing which made people behave badly towards others. The Christians I've encountered more recently have made me reassess that view a bit.

I don't think you need to delete the thread OP. Just try and be less defensive and a bit more open minded.

This is what I mean. I wasn't defensive or insulting to others.

Anyway I have asked Mumsnet to delete it.

I think plenty of people who have hard lives are Christians too. Their faith helps them get through the hard times. there are many devout people in poor countries, and look at the number of devout black A mericans for instance, many of whom have had very tough lives. for that matter, being white, middle class and well off doesn't make you immune from things like illness, old age, and death, which can be trying whatever your class or colour.

I think OP has been more pleasant and open to changing her view than some posters on this thread, hasn't she?

Op, in Wales the results of the last census showed that Maerdy (a poor town in a post industrial Rhondda Valley) was identified as having the lowest number of people with religious belief. So although some find great comfort and strength in their faith (whatever faith that may be), there are also those communities where faith doesn't play such an important role. I don't think it would be naive to assume that poverty may be a factor in why someone may not believe in a faith, just as long as that assumption doesn't presume agnostic or atheist views just because someone lives in poverty.

OP have you tried replacing Christian with atheist, and references to faith with no faith ?

It makes equal sense.

My Christian faith is just about the one thing that's keeping me going at the moment - despite the fact that it's a Christian organisation that has messed up our lives unbelievably. Or contributed to the mess whilst "praying for us" I feel that it gives me hope that things WILL resolve despite this current bleak bit.

My experience of devout Christians:

1. Brought up in the faith, never been tested as such and thus believe their life is a reward for good behaviour

1. Suffered a terrible tragedy and finding solace in god and the afterlife

1. Find god just prior to school selection.

1. Have a deep and unshakable faith that is deeply rooted in every aspect of life, with no sense of entitlement.

FWIW, it's a Catholic school and its management which have ruined my life - whilst praying for me, naturally...

I know both Christaisn who have been Christians all their lives and had easy lives. And those who become Christian after something devastating happens to them.

Although there are exceptions, the people I know who have had many multiple awful things happen to them over their life, tend to not be Christian, even though they may have been in the past. It must be difficult to sustain a faith if year after year more awful things happen to you.

Interesting, AKeyFox. I like what you did there . I wonder what it is then, which predisposes someone to faith. Dawkins talks about it doesn't he, the possible Darwinian reasons behind the success of religion through the ages?

at YellowTulips no3

I think I hitch congregations vary area to area. One church maybe located in a deprived area and support vulnerable adults, another church can be niiicely village located and have a rather jolly flock for the reverend to care for.

This is probably the most tame religious thread I have come across on the internet. I'm kind of shocked it hasn't derailed into a thread of salvation and who goes to hell.

mrsmat - I don't leave the organisation out of it because, for me, Christianity is inherently communal. To me, that's what communion is. I accept it be different for you - but that's why I put it like that.

I think that's actually got a lot to do with the whole issue. Christ died for us - not just the ones who have the right pat phrases, or even the ones who are secure in their faith. He also died for the Doubting Thomases. That's the point.

near - I just wanted to say, your post is brave. I know it would be crass to pretend I had anything to say about it, but for me it sums it up.

No, I've met plenty of poor, wacky and uneducated Christians. Their life has not been easy by any standard. I've also known middle-class Christians who have had to deal with significant issues in their lives despite a veneer of wealth.

The average Anglican person is not a white middle class male as you might expect, but rather an woman from an African country in her early thirties. Hardly a life of privilege.

I know plenty of my Christians as you describe. Loads of them went to university and we're much like the vast majority of uni students. I also know loads of Christians who have had the most difficult of lives. I lived my teenage years in a very deprived area (think in top ten most deprived in the country at the time) -my dad was a vicar and dragged us there ;) I saw many, many people living in dire circumstances come to faith and stay faith. You may look at some of them now Nd think they are privileged and even mc, because their lives look different now.

Not that bad things have stopped happening but that their faith has transformed their outlooks, often from despair to hope.

Most Christians in the world are in poverty, a good amount are persecuted and there are a good Humber of British and American Christians who look like a good number of British and American people. Ie mc, white, privileged.

I am white and university educated, not particularly privileged financially (only compared to my friends in the DRC for eg ) and my life has by no means been free from pain and struggle. I am typing this from a hospital bed which I know well due to a lifetime of pain and degenerative disease. My faith isn't about merely a prop or comfort, though it does those things to some extent. It's a bit life changing hope in and despite my circumstances, about transformative relationship with God, about something that makes a huge difference to the everyday, not simply for the Great By and By.

Hope you're able to see op that you are taking a tiny sample and applying it across the board.