To wonder if a lot of people who are Christians have had a rather nice life?

[stilllivingbythesea14]

I know I phrased that clumsily but I know a few Christians. They are nice people but very devout and pretty much always have been.

They are all white, middle class, privately educated, university graduates, plenty of money, nice jobs, one SAHM.

It must be easier to have faith in God if you've had a nice life?

I'd like to believe but I'm not sure I can.

ComposHat

But then I don't understand how people get from that stage to buying into a particular religion and a particular sect or branch of that religion.

Don't understand much, do you? With all the religious people about, are you in a constant state of bafflement?

All the supernatural is, is phenomenon that has not been defined by science. Personally I do not think it is much of a stretch of the imagination to believe truth can exist beyond our (scientific) realisation of it.

That people can use other means to inform their beliefs than analysis does not surprise me. Did you use analysis to decide who to fall in love with?

ComposHat yes, my is based on both reason and experience - one without the other would be rather non robust, I think. Typing on phone so can't really explore this as far as I'd like - frustrating. But basically, having been brought up in am atheist then Christian family (my parents converted when I was little) I decided to explore more deeply for myself by going to a secular uni to study theology. By this time I had had much experience of God in life but needed to underpin this with knowledge and check for myself it worked.

Now I suppose you might call that a form of confirmation bias, but I really did go through a stage of unbelief as I explored it all, then back to firmer than ever belief as I discovered that my faith was intellectually robust.

However there will always be a kind of line - it wouldn't be faith if it was all laid out nicely in black and white or all worked together perfectly logically it doesn't. It's messy and unexplained and mysterious. But there the experience comes into it - the work of the Spirit which is compelling and convincing and utterly astonishing at times.

A aagh can't articulate properly on phone.

Yes I did study many other religions as part of my course. I found it fascinating, how humanity has reached out to God. I didn't do a comparative study and think 'oh I like this one best' - but I did explore the claims of different faiths, coming to the conclusion that Christianity was unique in its grace and forgiveness, and unique in the person of Jesus showing us what God looks like - and getting down in the mess of earth among us. A faith which is based in a God who has walked in the gritty reality and wept with women and understood suffering.

Nothing wrong with being baffled or not understanding, IMO.

There's a lot wrong with assuming you deserve to understand and other people should be able to explain to you (which to be fair, I don't think compos is, I'm just making the distinction). I'm baffled by people who enjoy golf. I don't expect them to convince me to like it.

compo, I think a previous Bishop of Durham described the resurrection as 'a conjuring trick with bones.'

His cathedral was struck by lightning very shortly afterwards, which some saw as a divine rebuke.

I think it was York, actually, that got the lightening strike, where he had just been enthroned. I recall roaring with laughter.

not great being a christian if you live somewhere like Syria or Egypt.

I read about an American lady in a Phillip Yancey book whose 2 dc had cystic fibrosis and died young.

I think life is tough for most people

Awful there. And not great in quite a few if the UK organisations.

Actually Jenkins said the Resurrection was "not a conjuring trick with bones". He was misquoted, probably deliberately, by the Press. I imagine he didn't sue for libel as Bishops Don't Do That Sort Of Thing.

Actually Jenkins said the Resurrection was "not a conjuring trick with bones". He was misquoted, probably deliberately, by the Press. I imagine he didn't sue for libel as Bishops Don't Do That Sort Of Thing.

I think that was his later clarification, toad.. I've gone back to look and the original remarks are quoted in the media as:

''I am bothered about what I call God and conjuring tricks. I am not clear that God maneuvers physical things. I am clear that he works miracles through personal responses and faith.''

To a questioner on the program who stressed the New Testament teaching that Jesus rose from the tomb, Dr. Jenkins replied, ''All I said, 'Was it literally physical?' After all, a conjuring trick with bones only proves that somebody is clever at a conjuring trick with bones.''

It's very nuanced, isn't it!

I was raised in a Christian home, still a Christian and a regular church goer.

I've experienced

multiple miscarriages
being rejected for adoption
sexual abuse
seeing dv taking place
being jobless

but I've also been able to work part time and spend time with my children, I'm white, married but certainly not middle class.

Yabu. I was brought up with mum dad an two brothers. My mum was brutalised by him. My brothers as I were frequently beaten badly. We attended church and he appeared to be the perfect husband. Sunday consisted of morning service, home for lunch, Sunday school, dinner the evening meeting. Every day was an activity at church after school. We go to Salvation Army and it's normal to be busy through the week.

As we got older he became more aggressive and turned to sexual abuse for me.

The violence increased. We had to ask for food and water. Mum died of asthma when I was 14. She couldn't take life support machines again. Had been on 4 times before.

The arsehole had sanded Down the staircase and refused to let her out. I believe he killed her.

Brothers and I were taken into care when finally someone heard us. And listened to what I was saying. Oh we spoke up about it to family and church and friends. But that's just how it was in the 80s.

I left care and got engaged to an arsehole who was for all purposes a copy of my lovely genetic material. I had a baby at 19. He banned me from getting my daughter dedicated. I was a single mum when she was 18months old. She was then diagnosed with arthritis and I struggled with an aggressive ex, a very sick child and a history of abuse which my ex used as an excuse to claim that because I was abused so I would be an abuser. I was reported to social services umpteen times for amazing reasons. She was bruising badly. She was undernourished. I was running a brothel.

There were so many times that I only got by because of food parcels and church friends putting money in my leccy meter.

In time I got a good job. Then my immune system crashed as I took severe allergies that left me inches from intensive care on several occasions. I lot my job.

My teen turned 16. She went off the rails. Took to drinking and hanging about with assholes.

My friends toddler died after a two year battle with leukaemia. I sat with her in intensive care as she was dying. Prayed for her to find peace and still support her mum as best as I humanly can.

Now I am 37. I am finally married I a man I adore and adores me. I don't worry about money. We don't hae a lot but we get by. I am 7 weeks pregnant.

I feel like Job sometimes. Eastenders wouldn't write the script to my life.

But the one thing I had during all of that. Faith.

So yes op you are being unreasonable. As Christians our lives are no more perfect than anyone else's. All we try to do is live within the boundaries of our faith. To maintain dignity and to help others around us.

Never once did I blame God for this.

Apologies is this has dampened anyone's morning. I see my live as being positive though. Without these experiences I wouldn't be who I am today.

million and Drewswife

Op how are you today?

But I'm not blaming God. I just WANT to believe, but am struggling to.

All this 'my life is worse than yours and I believe' is getting really tiresome to be honest.

stilllivingI don't know if this would be the best place to consider your loss of belief/faith.

You started out by saying that you had now less faith than others, and was this due to them having easier lives. Many people said, no, they had had difficult lives and still had faith.

This doesn't really have that much to do with your own faith though- and I don't think this is something that can be productively argued out. You may not even want to find your faith again, you may be at peace with it not being in your life, although I don't get the impression this is the case.

Is there anyone you could talk to about this? Friend, or even church person if you know someone you like. Or just sitting and contemplating can also sometimes bring us to think about things differently.

I don't have any answers, nor do I have unshakeable faith. I see it as a rather rocky road, and don't know if I'm on it half the time.

I hope you find some inner peace with all this, I really don't think it is going to be found on a thread in AIBU (which I find often quite a stressful place) although some people have made good suggestions about ways forward if you wanted one.

I would come away from this thread OP, maybe start a new one in the philosophy section. I started one there a few days ago about losing faith, join that maybe? You need a space where you can talk freely about your experience and be met with some compassion not this well my faith is better than yours crap you are getting here.

The way that people often found faith before the evangelical revival was the other way, outside in. Act as though you have it, and it will come. The discipline of doing so keeps you going when faith falters.

This can lead to arrant hypocrisy, as we have heard, and cover a multitude if sins, but it is not a silly approach. Lord, I believe, help thou my unbelief, is a famous statement by ?

I do not understand how this thread is any different to the one the other day asking if all jewish people were rich.

are all jewish people rich. = you fucking racist bitch OP
are all Christians happy. = oh how interesting...

That was removed because if cries of racism. Which is wasn't. Why is this thread acceptable?

Because abusing Christians for their beliefs is seen as perfectly acceptable. People who would not mock the beliefs or faith of Jews or Muslims feel perfectly free to come out with " God botherer " or sky pixie comments or to state that all Christians are are stupid or uneducated. Or middle class ( apparently now an insult ) .

Yes of course all Christians are stupid. All Jews are rich. All gay people are promiscuous. All black men are violent. All Indians smell of curry. All Pakistanis run a corner shop. All women are irrational .

My partner was brought up in a very much Christian family, however he has been through amongst many other things;

Death of father at an eary age
A very acrimonious divorce
DV
No access to his children
Ill health
Loss of jobs

Plus I have not long ago miscarried.

OP yabvu and really should think before you make such sweeping statements.

my Mum's Christian and the things that have happened to her would make your teeth itch. She always cites her own Mum who said that just because you ask a question in prayer, the answer isn't always yes....

So essentially YABU.

All this 'my life is worse than yours and I believe' is getting really tiresome to be honest. Isn't that the question you asked though?
"To wonder if a lot of people who are Christians have had a rather nice life?"

I think a lot of people haven't had a 'nice' or easy life, it's just some people are less extroverted about telling other people about things that go wrong.

Whilst a couple of close friends within the church know my life story most people do not and would look in and see me as you described "white, middle class, good job, uni education..."
in reality
sexually abused for years as a child
father died when I was 8
my 14yr old step son sexually abused my DS for a year until DS learnt to talk. DSS then got put into care on the other side of the country.
DH had a 10year affair with my sister, who when it was discovered (1 week before DS2 was born) it threw her over the edge into anorexia and she has lived in a residential eating disorder clinic most of the time since, every now and then she threw concocted allegations about my family to the police as she wants me to lose my CRB checked job.

However, I do not believe that God caused those things to go wrong. They all involved peoples (bad) choices. I am however completely ready to trust in God to get me through things and the grace to forgive people and move on.

Kristina

you missed out "all men are bastards"