Subway - Halal issue

[CiderLover]

I feel a bit annoyed that 200 Subway stores are removing their Ham and Bacon due to requests from their Muslim customers.

I think the process of producing Halal meat is cruel, but obviously that isn't an issue to Subway.

There are plenty of Subway stores that advertise their pork as being Halal so why this? It's not earth shattering stuff but ...

Should I move to a muslim country and want to open a strip club would that be allowed?

gordy you said
do you know what % of your meat is slaughtered without stunning because it didn't work ...

Clearly you are desperately trying to find holes in my comments. As a vegetarian, the comment your meat would not apply to me would it. I don't buy meat. If you choose to interpret that as me having no issues with animals suffering a distressing death then that is disappointing. But I think we both know you knew exactly what I meant.

Presumably "turkey ham" is some sort of vile,processed,Bernard Matthews type of intensively reared produce.

I'm not at the moment vegetarian although have been in the past and may well go that way again.

My criteria for eating meat is it must be free range, organic , locally produced or at least within in the UK and source identified. This basically means a local butcher or Waitrose and rarely eating meat in restaurants.

I know the issue here is whether meat is halal or not. There clearly is no consensus here on whether halal slaughter is more or less cruel, although the RSPCA seem to think it is more cruel.

Setting the religious aspect aside I'm a bit puzzled that any-one can think it is acceptable morally or from the point of view of food quality to eat an intensively reared turkey but not a free-range pig.

My dh is a butcher. He feels halal is cruel and unnecessary.

My dh is a butcher. He feels halal is cruel and unnecessary.

And I feel that butchering animals for meat is cruel and unnecessary, but we're all different, aren't we?!

It's local butcher or Waitrose for me too Caitlin. I have been to Subway a couple of times but won't bother now and wouldn't touch a Dominos now that it seems to be the case that all their meat is Halal too. IMO both Halal and Kosher meat is slaughtered cruelly. I have friends who have visited both these types of abattoir for their work and were quite traumatised by what they saw.

Mrs was it anything in particular that turned you veggie? It took me a couple of years. I forced myself to face the meat industry and what was involved. It was hard going but am glad I did it.

In recent years some improvements have been made in animal welfare. It's not much and it's slow and should have happened long ago, but it happens.

So we can feel that progress is being made, that we're inching forward, that one day in the future we can look forward to it being as humane and decent as it could possibly be (given that we are going to eat them)

but then someone say "No! our religion say it must stay the same as this. Not just for today or tomorrow, but for all time".

That is depressing. You can try and argue that the difference between the current methods is not so great if you like, but it's the wrong comparison. What we should be comparing to is what it could have become if we kept on moving forward.

Devonian I find it surprising that as a butcher your DHiisn't aware enough of his own industry that a statement like "Halal is cruel" is inaccurate and a bit stupid

Non stun halal and kosher may be considered cruel but as has been said on thread 100 times a miniscule % of halal is non stun. The majority is stunned, slit and hung to bleed.

As is all non halal. So he either doesn't like non stun meat or he doesn't like halal which means he doesn't like slaughter at all and he really should consider a change of career.

Mushy dominoes and subway will all be stun so if you want to avoid animals killed in that way you need to go totally veggie.

Mrs definitely agree it is easier now compared to the 80's. My husband gave up eating red meat and lost two stone in a year. He was a real meat eater. Even he admits he feels better for it. I visited a farm a few years ago that rears and slaughters all of its beef cattle on site. They also sold all their meat in their farm shop. The farmer who showed me round went to great pains to explain how he works hard to ensure his stock endure as little stress as possible. He was very passionate about animal welfare and did seem to have a lot of love for his animals. Sadly because of the huge demand for cheap meat his set up was obviously for a niche market.

it does worry me that a butcher doesn't understand Halal slaughter

Can't we have a pig farm locally just like that - free range pigs , on site slaughter and a lovely shop and restaurant

although I am not a big meat eater my 3 love their sausages

gordy love seeing pigs out in the mud. They just look so happy. It is such a shame there are not more farms like that but I guess it is just not sustainable.

Interesting point about the outdoor reared pigs ... there's a farm shop round here which does exactly that and the sausages are just amazing. They cost £3.79 for six, while the Morrisons premium range ones are £3.49, so that's 30p more for a difference too great to describe

Yes, these places can be more expensive, but not always as much as you'd think

You will shortly receive your first free burka and uour DH will be pinned down and forcibly have bits of his knob chopped off.

I don't think it'll be dh who has things chopped off. Never heard of FGM?

There clearly is no consensus here on whether halal slaughter is more or less cruel, although the RSPCA seem to think it is more cruel.
The British Veterinary Association says it's more cruel. Unlike the useless RSPCA they aren't afraid to say so.

There have been halal subways for ages, it's old news.

Ha Pixel nice showing of yourself as being more on the UKIP than PETA side of this argument

FGM is a cultural not religious practice. For example the stats from Burkina Faso

FGM is prevalent in 82% of Muslim women, 73% of traditional religions, 69% of Roman Catholics and 65% of Protestants

And on the slaughter I'm going to say it one more time

HALAL SLAUGHTER IS NOT MORE CRUEL

HALAL SLAUGHTER IS NORMALLY THE EXACT SAME AS NON HALAL SLAUGHTER

Non stun slaughter however is. But only a very small amount of halal is non stun. Kosher also non stun.

So I think the argument should be "non stun slaughter is cruel" not "halal slaughter is cruel" because that's just not true.

It wasn't me who mentioned burkas and having bits chopped off in the first place, I was just replying to someone else.

I don't see why we can't have our food labelled so we ALL have a choice that's all. And yes if the British Veterinary Association say it's more cruel then I'm inclined to believe them. I would rather NOT have halal meat given the CHOICE which I'm not getting now. I've got the lunch menu from my son's school in front of me now. It proudly boasts membership of the following:-

Fairtrade
Good Egg Award
LEAF (linking environment and farming)
Free Range
Freedom food
Marine Stewardship council
Soil Association organic standard
Red Tractor mark.

All of which I'm very happy about because I do care about animal welfare and ethical farming. I don't buy supermarket meat, I've never had mcDonalds and neither have I ever taken my children in there, I don't need to buy eggs now because I have my own hens but before that I only bought them from the local farm shop where the hens are free ranging. So I'm not jumping on some anti-muslim bandwagon, I want the animal welfare laws in this country to apply to everybody. The RSPCA seems to turn a blind eye when it suits them and are strangely quiet on this subject.

Meant to say that the school dinner menu should tell us whether meat is halal or not, to some of us it is as important as the other things listed. And the supermarkets and fast food places should do the same.

But if you really care do your research.

Non stun is where animals are slaughtered without being unconscious first. This is very very specialist abbatoirs less than 2%.

The normal slaughter method is stun, slit, bleed whether halal or not that's how it will be killed so it makes no difference. Your school meat could be halal but it is killed in the same way so how can it possibly be more cruel?? Its the exact same!

The veterinary association should change their damn language to say non stun meat is cruel. Because that's what they actually mean. Saying halal meat is cruel isn't true and causes people to blindly follow along.

In fact I am incensed enough to now write to the BVA and ask that they change their descriptor!

There are no religious ground to avoid them because there is nothing in the bible that tells us to not eat halal is there?

Well not everyone is Muslim of Christian, Sikhs can't eat meat that has been prayed over so no halal or kosher.

I live I a Muslim country, Qatar. There is a Christian church, pork and alcohol shop etc. the whole "wouldn't be able to do it in a Muslim country" is generally bollocks. I am glad I have 2 homes, both places that show tolerance for culture and religion. The Daily Mail creates these non issues.
Mainly I want to agree with the poster up thread who said that meat is cruel and the chickens hardly had a life roaming the Scottish highland, halal or not.

I didn't know (to be honest hadn't given it a thought) about Sikhism. According to a Sikh website it seems to be their view that if you're going to eat meat the animal should be killed as quickly as possible and praying over it does no good either to man or animal. Which I have to say as an atheist occasional meat-eater makes a lot of sense.

www.sikhs.org/meat.htm