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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think holding a vigil outside Marie Stopes is wrong? and to wish there was something I could do (may be upsetting)

999 replies

Menolly · 03/04/2014 00:08

The local Catholic church is planning another vigil next week outside Marie Stopes, I am Catholic although attend a different parish (because I disagree with this ones overly judgmental congregation and uncaring priest). I think it is a horrible thing to be doing, I can see the clinic from my flat and at the last one they blocked the pavement meaning that people had to ask them to move to get through, whether they were going to the clinic or up the road (which leads to the high street, train stations, bus stops etc.).

They do move out the way when asked and they are peaceful whilst there, just singing and praying the rosary, however if I was a teenage girl going in for advice or was in some terrible situation where I needed their services I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to push my way through. Ignoring the fact that the clinic also does STD testing, contraceptive advice, smear tests etc, an abortion isn't an easy thing to go through whatever the circumstances and I think adding to that stress is a terrible thing to do, then considering that these people don't know that the woman they are upsetting aren't going there because they've been raped or because of some other horrible circumstance it makes me really angry.

My eldest child was conceived through rape when I was just 15, I kept him and he's beautiful and I have never regretted that decision but I had a lot of family support that other women might not have and there was a time when I did look at my options and having a bunch of judgmental people singing outside whilst I was trying to get advice would have made things much harder for me at a time when I seriously considered suicide, I hated myself for letting that happen to me and felt guilty for all the stress it put on my parents, I felt I was being judged constantly and lost my own faith for a long time because I couldn't stand the thought that God would let that happen or the guilt and judging associated with church and I hate the idea that people would do something so insensitive and could push someone to making the wrong decision or feeling even worse.

I find the vigils upsetting and I could hear them singing from my living room last time, what I went through was nearly 10 years ago now, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who had been through something more recently or had less support.

I just wish there was something I could do to make these people, who I am sure think they are doing a good thing, see how harmful their vigil could be, but so far I can't think of any way of doing that...

So AIBU to think they shouldn't being doing this? Also if anyone can think of a peaceful way of showing my disgust I'd be grateful.

OP posts:
AllDirections · 03/04/2014 10:35

You could be an escort to and from the path.

I thought this too but then realised it wouldn't be that easy as other posters have said upthread. I think what I would do is everytime I saw someone approaching I would clear a way for them just be walking up and down the path, saying excuse me to get people to move just so that the people attending the clinic don't have to speak to them or wait for them to move.

I'm up for doing that (you probably need one person at either side of the group) but it's probably nowhere near me Sad

Oh, and just to say that I agree with all the previous posters about how vile this kind of behaviour is!

Nancy66 · 03/04/2014 10:44

Ahhh yes, the marvellous catholic church that for years wilfully covered up the fact that its priests were raping and molesting children. Lovely people.

one of the many many reasons I rejected my catholic faith to become atheist.

SuburbanRhonda · 03/04/2014 11:20

As I've said a gazillion times before, these people are not pro-life, they are pro-foetus. Once the baby is born you won't see them for dust Angry

twofingerstoGideon · 03/04/2014 11:39

Yes, confuddled :)

Abra1d · 03/04/2014 11:47

They don't give a fuck about unborn babies, if they did there would be plenty of willing hands and money helping with the babies who are born in less than ideal circumstances, but there isn't. So where are all these people who talk about right to life when that life needs some actual useful help? eh? No where to be fucking found IME.

I don't think that is entirely fair. In the parish I used to go to, the woman who was obsessed with the SPUC was also heavily involved in local children's charities, always collecting clothes and toys for babies and toddlers, etc.

I didn't agree with all her SPUC views and found her annoying, but she certainly wasn't being a hypocrite--she put her hand in her pocket and gave her time and energy to supporting vulnerable mothers and children.

twofingerstoGideon · 03/04/2014 11:54

It is easy to collect clothes and toys for babies. How very generous of her.

It is less easy to go through a pregnancy against your will, give birth against your will and take responsibility - financially and emotionally - for another person against your will. I imagine clothes and toys are of little concern to women who desperately want or need a termination.

Menolly · 03/04/2014 12:04

I missed the thread a few weeks ago.

Sadly I know a lot of the women who are going and they are vile people, not helping charities or even particularly polite to the children of the parish, which is part of why I take my children to another parish (whose priest thinks this is as disgusting as I do)

fideline it's the one in Maidstone.

OP posts:
Menolly · 03/04/2014 12:17

Pitmountainpony, I support their right to protest, as I said before I would be fine with them handing out leaflets outside the church which is just round the corner but in front of a clinic, blocking pavements is wrong, besides all the points above it means that I and many other parents will have a choice of being stuck in our homes, going out for the duration of the protest or walking through the vigil with young children.

OP posts:
fideline · 03/04/2014 12:35

Not the same one then.

I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that they are allowed to block public pavements or wave such graphic images around in public.

sunshinemmum · 03/04/2014 12:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

confuddledDOTcom · 03/04/2014 13:25

The last thread is still on my Threads I'm On.

Birdinthebush · 03/04/2014 13:34

OP the protesters are probably part of 40 days for life, they protest clinics every year during lent.

If yours is the Ealing Marie Stopes, Bloomsbury Pro choice are organising a counter protest this Saturday . It's on their Facebook page.

I am just so glad that we have a prochoice majority in the UK and abortion is nowhere near as controversial as in the US

AlpacaPicnic · 03/04/2014 13:53

I would totally join a counter protest, and hold a sign offering to escort someone to the doors with no judgement.
Fwiw, I would support the right of the protestors to be there to offer guidance and support for people. Maybe if they were there to signpost supportive organisations etc.
They absolutely should not be allowed to block the pathway. In fact, that may be illegal. When I was picketing a workplace we were only allowed 6 people to a spot and we were expressly forbidden from being intimidating. Obv a very different situation but maybe some similar rules apply?

twofingerstoGideon · 03/04/2014 15:29

Alpaca, what sort of 'guidance and support' could protestors reasonably offer from a pavement outside a clinic?

MojitoMadness · 03/04/2014 16:50

These kind of disgusting people really fuck me off! There should be a number of mass protests outside of Catholic churches against paedophile priests abusing children and women and getting away with it for decades. Against the nuns and priests locking thousands of vulnerable women away for decades in Magdalene Laundries! Wasn't Jesus supposed to have said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"? Yeah really good Catholics these people are, rules for everybody else excluding themselves. Hmm

Nancy66 · 03/04/2014 16:57

erect a loud speaker and play this to the protestors

AlpacaPicnic · 03/04/2014 17:18

twofingers
I don't think I worded that very well... Please don't misunderstand me, I am completely pro-choice.

I was just thinking that if they were there to say to women 'did you know there is That may be able to offer you help or advice' then anybody who was unsure of their options could find out a bit more.
But just to stand there and intimidate people going through such a difficult time is abhorrent.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 03/04/2014 17:24

Could you do a FB for page to generate intereat in a counter protest/path clearing exercise? I'm sure even if those of us who aren't near you would share it and get word out?

twofingerstoGideon · 03/04/2014 17:27

Thanks for responding, alpaca. I guessed you were pro choice from the rest of your post, but I do think that by the time they're entering the clinic, women have already considered all the options and looked at all the alternatives. I really don't think it's appropriate for people with such a massive agenda to be pushing 'help and advice' at that point. TBH I don't think they should offer 'help and advice' at any point, given their inability to be in impartial.

Strawberyshortcake · 03/04/2014 17:42

I think it's outrageous to do this outside a clinic. Do people think this would be a decision any woman would take lightly? Also people need to bear in mind that pregnancies that are terminated at a late stage are normally because there are extenuating circumstances for example, the baby could have a condition that could cause a lifetime of pain and suffering, or very short lifespan. The woman could have cancer or another health condition that puts her life at risk if she continues with pregnancy etc etc. It is not black and white, and people are wrong to judge unless they have been in this awful and heartbreaking situation.

maggiemight · 03/04/2014 17:50

I'm sure it's illegal to block the pavement thus forcing people onto the road in the path of traffic.

Alisvolatpropiis · 03/04/2014 18:10

Yanbu.

I wouldn't be polite if I saw them either in passing or because I was entering the building.

"Get the fuck out of my way you sanctimonious medieval wankers"

specialsubject · 03/04/2014 18:17

much as it disgusts me, they do have the right to peaceful protest. They do not have the right to block access to legal services; many of which will not be abortion.

But I wait to see the protestors offering homes, care and finance for the children that they 'save'.

If they survive the birth, that is - many terminations are done because the foetus cannot live independently, and this can be of a much-wanted baby. I cannot imagine the distress of parents who have to make this decision AND have to run a picket line of intolerant, ignorant and ill-informed people who believe that they are right.

twofingerstoGideon · 03/04/2014 18:30

"Get the fuck out of my way you sanctimonious medieval wankers"

Excellent approach, Alis!
Grin

SuburbanRhonda · 03/04/2014 19:33

Abra1d, I'm afraid your SPUC friend could have donated both her kidneys and she still wouldn't have mitigated against supporting one of the most homophobic and misogynistic organisations I have ever had the misfortune to come across.